On May 21, 9:39 am, "Peter van der Goes" <p_vanderg...@toadstool.u>
wrote:
> "Mike S." <littleboybl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179727948.471935.270060@z24g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
>
> >A few weeks ago a relative was having a problem with their computer -
> > it was extremely slow. I ran several different spyware, rootkit and
> > virus scans using different programs. I ran them in normal and safe
> > mode and all results showed that the computer was clean. HijackThis
> > showed that a file that was a trojan, so I removed it. I also removed
> > all programs that were associated with spyware.
>
> > The slowness problem still persisted so I thought maybe it wasn't a
> > spyware problem. The CPU usage was at 4% and System Idle Process was
> > at 99. Everything looked normal, there were no odd processes running,
> > the hard disk and memory tested ok.
>
> > The relative took the computer in to be repaired and the tech said it
> > was full of spyware and viruses and reformatted it.
>
> > How is it possible that I ran several different spyware and virus
> > scans (using reputable programs) and nothing showed up? And the tech
> > claims he found spyware? Does it sound like he was lying?
>
> > If he was lying then I'd like to find out. I'd hate for my relatives
> > to take their computer someplace where the employees are dishonest. It
> > looks like the computer was reformatted but I'm thinking that maybe he
> > couldn't figure out the problem and decided to just reformat it and
> > then blame spyware.
>
> > I'd really like to hear opinions on this matter.
>
> It's a matter of simple economics.
> When you worked on the computer, how many hours did you spend diagnosing,
> testing, etc.?
> For a business, it's not feasible to spend that kind of time on a problem,
> then attempt to charge the customer for the time spent.
> If a business did that ("We diagnosed the problem and repaired it. That will
> be $400 for 10 hours labor."), the typical customer would be outraged and
> tell everybody who would listen what a rip-off the XYZ Computer Repair is.
> If XYZ gave the customer an up front estimate of $400, how many computers
> would be left for repair? Alternatively, formatting the hard drive, then
> reinstalling the OS takes an hour? "Your computer is infested with malware.
> It will cost you $75 to have your drive cleaned and your OS reinstalled."
> It's not that he couldn't figure it out, it's that it's not economically
> feasible for the shop to spend the time. The reformat approach also
> minimizes the probability that something gets left unfixed, causing the
> unhappy customer to reappear demanding the job be redone gratis.
=============================/
""QUOTE""

and I deliberately top-posted because (as Laura would say) I
> CAN.....grin.

""UNQUOTE""

On May 21, 9:39 am, "Peter van der Goes" <p_vanderg...@toadstool.u>
wrote:
> "Mike S." <littleboybl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179727948.471935.270060@z24g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
>
> >A few weeks ago a relative was having a problem with their computer -
> > it was extremely slow. I ran several different spyware, rootkit and
> > virus scans using different programs. I ran them in normal and safe
> > mode and all results showed that the computer was clean. HijackThis
> > showed that a file that was a trojan, so I removed it. I also removed
> > all programs that were associated with spyware.
>
> > The slowness problem still persisted so I thought maybe it wasn't a
> > spyware problem. The CPU usage was at 4% and System Idle Process was
> > at 99. Everything looked normal, there were no odd processes running,
> > the hard disk and memory tested ok.
>
> > The relative took the computer in to be repaired and the tech said it
> > was full of spyware and viruses and reformatted it.
>
> > How is it possible that I ran several different spyware and virus
> > scans (using reputable programs) and nothing showed up? And the tech
> > claims he found spyware? Does it sound like he was lying?
>
> > If he was lying then I'd like to find out. I'd hate for my relatives
> > to take their computer someplace where the employees are dishonest. It
> > looks like the computer was reformatted but I'm thinking that maybe he
> > couldn't figure out the problem and decided to just reformat it and
> > then blame spyware.
>
> > I'd really like to hear opinions on this matter.
>
> It's a matter of simple economics.
> When you worked on the computer, how many hours did you spend diagnosing,
> testing, etc.?
> For a business, it's not feasible to spend that kind of time on a problem,
> then attempt to charge the customer for the time spent.
> If a business did that ("We diagnosed the problem and repaired it. That will
> be $400 for 10 hours labor."), the typical customer would be outraged and
> tell everybody who would listen what a rip-off the XYZ Computer Repair is.
> If XYZ gave the customer an up front estimate of $400, how many computers
> would be left for repair? Alternatively, formatting the hard drive, then
> reinstalling the OS takes an hour? "Your computer is infested with malware.
> It will cost you $75 to have your drive cleaned and your OS reinstalled."
> It's not that he couldn't figure it out, it's that it's not economically
> feasible for the shop to spend the time. The reformat approach also
> minimizes the probability that something gets left unfixed, causing the
> unhappy customer to reappear demanding the job be redone gratis.
==============================/

And so like two points here.... I am asking because this is the first
time I have seen someone as your self so intelligently spell this
out.

Let me preface this with my idea that I would call any shop a rip off
for doing such a thing when Webroot Spysweeper costs 30 dollars and
the customer does not even have to leave the house and it would take
care of the problem with a lot of other in-hand forensics options.

Here's my rub - and I do not know how well versed you are in spyware
removal. I am near an expert and will mention I have 'discovery' in
the security industry of softwares in RASautodial discoveries that no
anti-dialer or anti-modem product has ever detected or blocked. And
said that to say this - that -but - but I am just an average consumer,
and so now the best I can be called is Advanced User (no degree or
professionalism as far as employment in the field).

The "reformat".... I'm thinking a couple things with the last sting
operation Microsoft ran netting over 60 million piracy copies of
Windows and whereby they have beefed up Genuine Advantage and
discluded bootlegs. This is along the lines of how many times do you
think the customer's license will allow re-install before the false
positive pops up for Genuine Advantage ? 2, 3 ? Now what ? License
includes one back up copy... endless re-installs ? No. They are for
"disaster recovery only" - which means once and maybe twice in the
lifetime of the product (licensed copy of Windows OS).

Secondly - there is the 99 percent prospect that their Windows OS is
infected. You can wipe that disc all you want - but you are still
putting the infected Windows OS back on the machine. Same thing that
industry software can't remove certain severe threat malware that is
lodged in System Restore (internal Windows back up system snapshot
copy). These severe types just keep rebooting into the system at start
up because they are copied in the System Restore copy of Files and
Registry if there was a Restore Point set when infected. In fact,
Webroot Spysweeper allows scanning in System Restore to remove these
and avoids the extra time of rebooting into Safe Mode after turning
off System Restore that when doing so, erases/deletes all back up
system snapshot files and keys.in the computer memory.

I should have done my homework first as I never bothered to look up
the distinctions between the words "wipe the disc" and "reformat the
disc", but I do know about and am performing partitioning the disc to
install Linux OS - and again because I know better that the whole gig
is a rip off of the consumer - so I never bothered.

But since you spell this out that well in the causes - my question is
when and where do the infections get removed in "reformatiing a
disc" ? Do you know ?

Thanks for a reply.... pay no attention to the other garbage on the
string. Thank you.

(PS... first time I asked this question in over 4 years, your's would
be the first reply I ever got in defending or describing this
technique for spyware removal).

PSSS.. So is reformatting deleting everything from a copy that is not
windows ? Then of course that would entail reinstalling all Windows
Updates and then next - what about all the software that is not
Windows ? What happens if it is infected and re-infects Windows when
re-installed to the new reformatted machine ? To be quite honest - I
see the whole process as chasing the tail and an endless line of lies
to the consumer and charges for doing what I said in the beginning -
plop the 30 bucks on the bar and get antispyware. For me, reformatting
is like - "What was your point?". And these same people are generally
all over the internet at forums and groups calling products like
Webroot and all other pay versions on the market "snake oil" (a
product that is worthless). Seems to be the other way around, but your
comments invite reply/questions. Thank you for your moment to defend
your siding with "reformatting" as advice for spyware removal for the
fellow that asked for help.