How much does the MPIA know about you right now?

[weeks]

How much becomes public knowledge about you (me) the moment you (we) use a
freeware bittorrent client to download/upload a shared .torrent?

I'm sure your IP address and your ISP and a rough estimate of your
geolocation from the IP address can be had almost instantly. Certainly what
you are attempting to upload & download is public knowledge, as is your
bittorrent client-but what else do they know about you (me) right off the
bat?

I'm not asking what they can find out if they subphoena your ISP (which is
your name and address and entire upload/download history).

I'm asking what they know from your use of the bittorrent client alone.
a. bittorrent client & version
b. IP address, ISP, and geolocation
c. downloaded/uploaded files
d. ? what else do they instantly know about you ?

Elise

[meerkat]

"weeks" <r_weeks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nkxy3d65a63l$.1o6i8o6i7nu3i$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> How much becomes public knowledge about you (me) the moment you (we) use a
> freeware bittorrent client to download/upload a shared .torrent?
>
> I'm sure your IP address and your ISP and a rough estimate of your
> geolocation from the IP address can be had almost instantly. Certainly
> what
> you are attempting to upload & download is public knowledge, as is your
> bittorrent client-but what else do they know about you (me) right off the
> bat?
>
> I'm not asking what they can find out if they subphoena your ISP (which is
> your name and address and entire upload/download history).
>
> I'm asking what they know from your use of the bittorrent client alone.
> a. bittorrent client & version
> b. IP address, ISP, and geolocation
> c. downloaded/uploaded files
> d. ? what else do they instantly know about you ?
>
Now, Now Elise, don`t start getting paranoid <g>.

[Odd Bob]

"meerkat" <xxxx@xxxx.com> wrote in
news:h010i.4462$r4.128@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net:

>
> "weeks" <r_weeks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:nkxy3d65a63l$.1o6i8o6i7nu3i$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
>> How much becomes public knowledge about you (me) the moment you (we)
>> use a freeware bittorrent client to download/upload a shared
>> .torrent?
>>
>> I'm sure your IP address and your ISP and a rough estimate of your
>> geolocation from the IP address can be had almost instantly.
>> Certainly what
>> you are attempting to upload & download is public knowledge, as is
>> your bittorrent client-but what else do they know about you (me)
>> right off the bat?
>>
>> I'm not asking what they can find out if they subphoena your ISP
>> (which is your name and address and entire upload/download history).
>>
>> I'm asking what they know from your use of the bittorrent client
>> alone. a. bittorrent client & version
>> b. IP address, ISP, and geolocation
>> c. downloaded/uploaded files
>> d. ? what else do they instantly know about you ?
>>
> Now, Now Elise, don`t start getting paranoid <g>.
>
>
>

Just be sure you don't get undressed while the monitor is facing you.

-- Paranoid Bob

PS: Remember, shiny side out!

[Hop-Frog]

weeks <r_weeks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:nkxy3d65a63l$.1o6i8o6i7nu3i$.dlg@40tude.net:
> I'm asking what they know from your use of the bittorrent client
> alone.
> a. bittorrent client & version
> b. IP address, ISP, and geolocation
> c. downloaded/uploaded files
> d. ? what else do they instantly know about you ?

Item C isn't quite true. Someone can know that you are uploading or
downloading the particular file for which he has a torrent. But all the
other torrents (especially torrents on other trackers) will remain
invisible.

Item B will require a separate database lookup, of course, and isn't
included in the actual data transferred over the BT protocol.

I can't see how any other information will be immediately available,
because no other information is really required for the BT protocol to
transfer data.

--
I am simply Hop-Frog, the jester--and this is my last jest.

[grimgard]

On 08 May 2007 16:25:09 GMT, Hop-Frog wrote:
> Item C isn't quite true. Someone can know that you are uploading or
> downloading the particular file for which he has a torrent. But all the
> other torrents (especially torrents on other trackers) will remain
> invisible.

What exactly does PeerGuardian stop if prying eyes were to come from a
"blocked" domain?

Whatever it is that PeerGuardian stops, presumably would be yet another
thing the bad guys know about you when you download or upload using BT.

[Constipated]

In article <Lyc0i.2939$RX.1823@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>,
grimgard@prodigy.net says...
> On 08 May 2007 16:25:09 GMT, Hop-Frog wrote:
> > Item C isn't quite true. Someone can know that you are uploading or
> > downloading the particular file for which he has a torrent. But all the
> > other torrents (especially torrents on other trackers) will remain
> > invisible.
>
> What exactly does PeerGuardian stop if prying eyes were to come from a
> "blocked" domain?

PeerGuardian stops the connection, you become invisable to the blocked
IP address. As if your computer wer not turned on.

> Whatever it is that PeerGuardian stops, presumably would be yet another
> thing the bad guys know about you when you download or upload using BT.

PeerGuardian does not advertize its self. The bad guys get nothing at
all so they cannot know you are using peerguardian.

The real question is "why are you not using Peerguardian". File shareing
wise you are playing leapfrog in the middle of the freeway.

[Hop-Frog]

grimgard <grimgard@prodigy.net> wrote in
news:Lyc0i.2939$RX.1823@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net :

> On 08 May 2007 16:25:09 GMT, Hop-Frog wrote:
>> Item C isn't quite true. Someone can know that you are uploading or
>> downloading the particular file for which he has a torrent. But all
>> the other torrents (especially torrents on other trackers) will
>> remain invisible.
>
> What exactly does PeerGuardian stop if prying eyes were to come from a
> "blocked" domain?

PeerGuardian stops the establishment of a peer-to-peer connection. So
all the data that the tracker provides (your IP) is still available.
That's enough to get B from the original list, and as much of C as
possible.

I suppose PeerGuardian would probably block A, since I think that data is
exchanged during the initial peer-to-peer handshake. But that data is
also beside the point for most purposes.

What PeerGuardian really does is prevent the anti-P2P people from
*confirming* that you are transferring copyrighted data. They can ask
the tracker, and it will tell them, but that's analogous to hearsay
evidence, and not much use. To confirm it, they'll want to actually
connect to your computer and receive some of the data--kind of like the
undercover cop actually buying pot from the dope peddler. It doesn't
really provide any *new* information, but it confirms that the *old* info
is reliable.

--
I am simply Hop-Frog, the jester--and this is my last jest.

[Edw]

On 09 May 2007 13:28:02 GMT, Hop-Frog wrote:

> What PeerGuardian really does is prevent the anti-P2P people from
> *confirming* that you are transferring copyrighted data.

Hop Frog,
You seem to be the lone voice of experience here.

Rather than just "assume" peerguardian blocks our IP address and the
torrent we're downloading like "Constipated", you explained how they
actually know everything that we're trying to hide but they just can't
prove it!

This situation then begs the question if they already know what we're
downloading and if they already know our IP address, is there a way to hide
or change these two things?

I've heard of onion routers for example.
Would an onion router mask the real IP address and torrent downloaded for
BT P2P downloads & uploads?

[Constipated]

In article <pkx0i.5390$H_.844@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>,
theotts@sbcglobal.net says...
> On 09 May 2007 13:28:02 GMT, Hop-Frog wrote:
>
> > What PeerGuardian really does is prevent the anti-P2P people from
> > *confirming* that you are transferring copyrighted data.
>
> Hop Frog,
> You seem to be the lone voice of experience here.
>
> Rather than just "assume" peerguardian blocks our IP address and the
> torrent we're downloading like "Constipated", you explained how they
> actually know everything that we're trying to hide but they just can't
> prove it!

That is what blocking does. They only CAN know what you are activly
leeching or seeding and only realy prove what you are seeding by
downloading some or all of the seeded file(s). When it comes to
leeching, the bad guys either need to packet sniff wich presents a realy
big problem when outside of local LAN or setup a activly seed to get the
leechers IP address. WinMX on the otherhand advertizes what you have
(are sharing).

> I've heard of onion routers for example.
> Would an onion router mask the real IP address and torrent downloaded for
> BT P2P downloads & uploads?

This works for leeching but be aware that the last hop to you is in
plain view (not encripted as all the other hops are). If you plan on
seeding then you cannot use onion because your IP address must be
advertized in order for the leechers to leech, onion hides your real IP
addressso leechers could not find us. When you are seeding the leechers
could be using onion.

How onion works is that you send a request for data. This request goes
to an onion server that then picks a route through other onion servers
(encrypting at each hop and adding a new packet wrapper to identify the
return route) to the next in line onion server. At the last onion hop
the data is fully unencripted and sent to the IP address you want to get
data from. The data when sent follows the reverse route through the
onion servers. The route is only good for about 1 minute a different
route is established, confusing the hell out of the bad guys. )

When uploading we would see leachers comming for a short time and
dropping off as the onion rout changes. This could make for some
interesting problems. Onion is made for client applications not server
applications. Your bit torrent program is acting as a server when
uploading to a leecher.

For maximum anonimity you need to run your own onion server (Tor
server).

[Hop-Frog]

Edw <theotts@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
newskx0i.5390$H_.844@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
> This situation then begs the question if they already know what we're
> downloading and if they already know our IP address, is there a way to
> hide or change these two things?

Doing so would kind of defeat the purpose of BitTorrent. When you run a
torrent, you want people to send you particular data. To do so, they
need to know (1) who you are, and (2) which data. That's your IP and the
torrent's hash. Make either one hidden, and the system breaks down.

> I've heard of onion routers for example.
> Would an onion router mask the real IP address and torrent downloaded
> for BT P2P downloads & uploads?

Never heard of Onion, but if Constipated's description is accurate, it's
just another encrypted proxy network. It would hide your true IP, but it
would would also probably slow the process down so completely as to make
it pointless.

I recall experimenting with "FreeNet" a few years back (the first attempt
at a truly anonymous web)--waiting 45 minutes for a webpage to load
wasn't all that fun...

--
I am simply Hop-Frog, the jester--and this is my last jest.