On Mar 26, 5:43 am, Art <n...@zilch.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:38:04 GMT, Dustin Cook
>
>
>
> <spamfilterineffect.see....@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >Art <n...@zilch.com> wrote in
> >news:ab3d03t1jgpa6fn0p1qgb9rfvl26vit5vf@4ax.com :
>
> >> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 0736 -0500, Leythos <V...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >>>On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:54:01 -0700, 4Q wrote:
>
> >>>> Meanwhile you
> >>>> are dodging the real focus of this
> >>>> thread which is to assertain if David
> >>>> has spread malware to a R-E-A-L irresponsible
> >>>> loon, Dustin Cook.
>
> >>>Until you show me that Dustin is a crook I can't accept your ideas or
> >>>your methods. As best I can tell, Dustin is a stand-up person,
> >>>repented for anything he may have done, and has been absolved for his
> >>>past issues.
>
> >>>I think you need to learn that people can change, read that as Grow
> >>>Up, and become responsible adults, it happens all the time.
>
> >> I don't think Dustin has repented at all. He doesn't see any harm in
> >> viruses. He just hates spyware and Trojans I do tend to believe
> >> him when he says he has outgrown his interest in writing viruses.
>
> >I wasn't aware that I elected you to speak on my behalf...
>
> I wasn't.
>
>
>
> >If I'm not reformed as I claim that I am, why on earth would I spend time
> >developing software designed to help people? It's not like i'm being paid
> >for it. Hey, I tell you what, anytime you think maintaining software
> >designed to hunt for trojans, spyware, keyloggers, etc is something to be
> >taken lightly, I encourage you to do it.
>
> >That seems to be something interesting that some of you are overlooking.
> >BugHunteris a useful program, written by a reformed virus writer, who is
> >out to cause no harm to anyone. And what do I get for this? The same
> >sillyness I left quoted above.
>
> >I could have just as easily spent the time working on my electronics
> >hobbies, but instead, I made the decision to help people. My bad.
>
> >> But that's quite a different thing from repenting. Apparently, then,
> >> he has no interest now in writing any kind of malware, including
> >> viruses. But that remains to be seen.
>
> >2 years Art, nothing malware related from me... Hmm...
>
> The word "repentent" makes me squirm a bit since it conjurs up
> images of some religious nut screaming "Repent, sinner". I think
> the world has had enough of repented and "saved" sinners.
> Case in point is George W. Bush ... a classic case of a reformed
> "sinner" who has lost the trust of most Americans and the world.
> Another less tragic and disatrous example is that devout Quaker,
> Richard M. Nixon, who authorized a illegal and immoral break-in.

I didn't mean or take repent in the religious aspect, no worries.

> Now, I recall that you felt entirely justified in "screwing over"
> people you considered to be "the pits". Your viruses were
> your weapons aimed at people you hated ... whether such
> people were engaged in illegal activities, porn, or were just
> plain "stupid users" in your eyes. The fact that viruses are
> "shotguns" spraying pellets all over the place didn't concern
> you. In your eyes, a stray pellet hitting a inncocent user
> didn't matter, since "stupid users" who take hits shouldn't
> be on the internet ... or some such argument. Besides,
> your viruses weren't really nasty and they were easy
> to eradicate ... I think you would claim IIRC. So you
> rationalized your virus writing and saw yourself as some
> kind of hero doing good deeds. You believed that some
> illegal or immoral means are justfied in pursuit of your ideals.

Fair enough, I did do those things... And I did have that viewpoint.
It was a childish viewpoint to have tho.

> You claim you've changed in some way, and I'm sincerely
> interested in hearing exactly in what way. I hope you
> haven't "got religion" and repented since I don't trust
> those unprincipled *******s who have as far as I can
> throw them

I simply, grew up. That was all. Writing viruses is known to be a
waste of time and somewhat immature, especially if they are released.
Even with the things you learn while writing them, you can only gain
so much knowledge from actually writing self replicating code. You can
gain even more knowledge reverse engineering such code to write
detection/removal routines. Clearly, time is better spent reverse
engineering the programs than it ever was to write them.

I'm not interested in writing malware programs of any kind Art. I'm
interested in the removal. Spyware is at the point where my time at
work is largely spent removing it. I do not like removing annoying
trojans (which is essentially what they all really are at the basic
level) by hand.

When you learn that your not in good health, you tend to rethink
things and see things a bit differently than you did before. It's not
a religious experience, it's a realization that time is short enough
as it is. Much to do, not enough time to do it all in.

> I think a real change might arise when a person is
> immersed in constructive work, such as your product,
> and finds such work to be far more rewarding than
> past activities. Is that what you've experienced? A
> real change to a dedication to strictly constructive
> work? Can you say with real feeling that you're
> now dedicated to strictly constructive work? If so,
> principles and "repentence" be damned I'd be
> inclined to think you have truly changed.

Art, I do find the work on BugHunter to be a rewarding experience,
even during the fights on usenet. The program is useful, people enjoy
using it, that's a feeling far better than that of a virus infecting
someone. I must admit, I do find the occasional legal letter from a
spyware company to be very amusing; I'm making a dent, they've
threatened me, I'm doing my job!

I'm sure you remember, I was writing freeware applications well before
my vxer days. Despite what 4Q would like for you to believe, I am an
accomplished programmer, and I do have training beyond that of
highschool, lol. An important aspect that 4Q fails to mention
concerning my education, was that I had no actual classes 3 of the 4
years in highschool! I was at a vocational training facility instead,
working on the computers and maintaining the network. I won the BEAM
competition 1st and 2nd place two years in a row respectively, that's
30,000+ some odd students I competed with on computer knowledge. The

The 2nd place award was given to me because I was not present to
attend the entire year that year, I had left school and moved. The
followup student, who happened to be in my class and was trained by
me! (hahaha) was given 1st place, when he originally one 2nd place.
I'm proud of the fact he got in the top 3, since I trained him on what
he didn't already know how to do.

The fact I've been professionally employed working on pcs and
compatables since I was a teenager also doesn't help his crack on my
education, Nothing beats hands on experience.

freeware applications I wrote were small and well written and
consistenly won awards on sites such as cnet.com; back when DOS
software was popular. In fact, some of my old freeware applications
dating to 95 and before are still available via simtel.net.


Despite my past Art, I'm not exactly the evil person I made myself out
to be. Much of my posts under the nick Raid did contain some
misleading information. Intentionally misleading. What I can claim in
my defense of the fact I've changed is BugHunter. An ongoing project
which actually started almost 3 years ago. If your going to judge me,
please do so with my most recent history of code.

--
Dustin Cook
http://bughunter.it-mate.co.uk