http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
-=ô;ö=- wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
>
> Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
Pity we can't read it without signing up....
--
B-)
Life is pain.....
Deal with it!!
"Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:_c39b.2185$WI3.29450@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
| -=ô;ö=- wrote:
| > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
| >
| > Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
|
| Pity we can't read it without signing up....
|
| --
| B-)
| Life is pain.....
| Deal with it!!
|
It's free and Painless....to Sign in there..
-=ô;ö=- wrote:
> "Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:_c39b.2185$WI3.29450@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>> -=ô;ö=- wrote:
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
>>>
>>> Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
>>
>> Pity we can't read it without signing up....
>>
>> --
>> B-)
>> Life is pain.....
>> Deal with it!!
>>
> It's free and Painless....to Sign in there..
Yet another site collection my details.......no thanks....
--
B-)
Life is pain.....
Deal with it!!
"Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:rv39b.2194$WI3.29639@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> -=ô;ö=- wrote:
> > "Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:_c39b.2185$WI3.29450@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> >> -=ô;ö=- wrote:
> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
> >>>
> >>> Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
> >>
> >> Pity we can't read it without signing up....
> >>
> >> --
> >> B-)
> >> Life is pain.....
> >> Deal with it!!
> >>
> > It's free and Painless....to Sign in there..
>
> Yet another site collection my details.......no thanks....
>
Yeah, screw the Times!
They wanted to arrest that whitehat hacker that showed them how open their
site was.
Down with the Times!
Jerry
"Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in news:rv39b.2194
$WI3.29639@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net:
> -=ô;ö=- wrote:
>> "Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:_c39b.2185$WI3.29450@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>>> -=ô;ö=- wrote:
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
>>>>
>>>> Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
>>>
>>> Pity we can't read it without signing up....
>>>
>>> --
>>> B-)
>>> Life is pain.....
>>> Deal with it!!
>>>
>> It's free and Painless....to Sign in there..
>
> Yet another site collection my details.......no thanks....
>
no problem..
there are many million different names in this world. Just use one of
them
use a free mail like hotmail or so.
the use if a proxy server is always good.
so now they'll end up with a fake name/personal info
and a source ip witch is not your's
and a spammail adress.
and you'll get access
Rulem wrote:
> "Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in news:rv39b.2194
> $WI3.29639@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net:
>
>
>>-=ô;ö=- wrote:
>>
>>>"Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>news:_c39b.2185$WI3.29450@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
>>>
>>>>-=ô;ö=- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
>>>>>
>>>>>Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
>>>>
>>>>Pity we can't read it without signing up....
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>B-)
>>>>Life is pain.....
>>>>Deal with it!!
>>>>
>>>
>>>It's free and Painless....to Sign in there..
>>
>>Yet another site collection my details.......no thanks....
>>
>
>
> no problem..
>
> there are many million different names in this world. Just use one of
> them
>
> use a free mail like hotmail or so.
>
> the use if a proxy server is always good.
>
> so now they'll end up with a fake name/personal info
> and a source ip witch is not your's
> and a spammail adress.
>
> and you'll get access
>
>
Why don't you just tell us what is in there?? I'm not signing up, I hate
being made to type in info, even if I do make it up.
--
----------------
-jayjwa Reg. Linux user #207147 PGPKey: http://atr2.ath.cx/jayjwa.asc
Spambox: jayjwa@hotmail.com -- 4 Spammers: listme@listme.dsbl.org
"The guys that made up SSL need their nuts slammed in a car door for
inventing something so useless & impossible to use. Just what UNIX
needs- more stuff to conbobuli-**** people"
- me, after attempting to install ssl for the 13x10^5 time.
*We have come for your Buffer!*
GET /default.ida?XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX%u90 90%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%
u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9 090%u9090%u8190%u00c3
%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 200 140 "-" "-"
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:23:11 +0100, "Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>-=ô;ö=- wrote:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
>>
>> Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
>
>Pity we can't read it without signing up....
Snip page one only -
September 14, 2003
DOMESTIC SECURITY
Bush Seeks to Expand Access to Private Data
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
WASHINGTON, Sept. 13 — For months, President Bush's advisers have assured a skittish
public that law-abiding Americans have no reason to fear the long reach of the
antiterrorism law known as the Patriot Act because its most intrusive measures would
require a judge's sign-off.
But in a plan announced this week to expand counterterrorism powers, President Bush
adopted a very different tack. In a three-point presidential plan that critics are already
dubbing Patriot Act II, Mr. Bush is seeking broad new authority to allow federal agents —
without the approval of a judge or even a federal prosecutor — to demand private records
and compel testimony.
Mr. Bush also wants to expand the use of the death penalty in crimes liketerrorist
financing, and he wants to make it tougher for defendants in such cases to be freed on
bail before trial. These proposals are also sure to prompt sharp debate, even among
Republicans.
Opponents say that the proposal to allow federal agents to issue subpoenas without the
approval of a judge or grand jury will significantly expand the law enforcement powers
granted by Congress after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. And they say it will also allow
the Justice Department — after months of growing friction with some judges — to limit the
role of the judiciary still further in terrorism cases.
Indeed, Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, who is sponsoring the measure
to broaden the death penalty, said in an interview that he was troubled by the other
elements of Mr. Bush's plan. He said he wanted to hold hearings on the president's call
for strengthening the Justice Department's subpoena power "because I'm concerned that it
may be too sweeping." The no-bail proposal concerns him too, the senator said, because
"the Justice Department has gone too far. You have to have a reason to detain."
But administration officials defended Mr. Bush's plan. Even though the administration is
confident that the United States is winning the war on terrorism, they said, they have run
into legal obstacles that need to be addressed.
"We don't want to tie the hands of prosecutors behind their backs," said Mark Corallo, a
Justice Department spokesman, "and it's our responsibility when we find weaknesses in the
law to make suggestions to Congress on how to fix them."
In announcing his plan on Wednesday, Mr. Bush said one way to give authorities stronger
tools to fight terrorists was to let agents demand records through what are known as
administrative subpoenas, in order to move more quickly without waiting for a judge.
The president noted that the government already had the power to use suchsubpoenas
without a judge's consent to catch "crooked doctors" in health care fraudcases and other
investigations.
The analogy was accurate as far as it went, but what Mr. Bush did not mention, legal
experts said, was that administrative subpoenas are authorized in health care
investigations because they often begin as civil cases, where grand jury subpoenas cannot
be issued.
The Justice Department used administrative subpoenas more than 3,900 times in a variety of
cases in 2001, the last year for which data was available. The subpoenas are already
authorized in more than 300 kinds of investigations, Mr. Corallo said.
"It's just common sense that we should be able to use this tool against terrorists too,"
he said. "It's not a matter of more power. It's the fact that time is of the essence and
we may need to act quickly when a judge or a grand jury may not be available."
Officials could not cite specific examples in which difficulties in obtaining a subpoena
had slowed a terrorism investigation.
But Mr. Corallo gave a hypothetical example in which the F.B.I. received a tip in the
middle of the night that an unidentified terrorist had traveled to Boston. Under Mr.
Bush's plan, the F.B.I., rather than waiting for a judicial order, could subpoena all the
Boston hotels to get registries for each of their guests, then run those names against a
terrorist database for a match, he said.
Attorney General John Ashcroft and other senior officials, defending the Patriot Act in
recent speeches and interviews, have emphasized that judges must sign offon the
investigative tools that have caused the most public protest, like searching library
records or executing warrants without immediately notifying the target.
One section of the Justice Department's new Patriot Act Web site, lifeandliberty.gov, for
instance, says the law "allows federal agents to ask a court for an orderto obtain
business records in national security terrorism cases."
The administration sought to expand the use of administrative subpoenas in the original
Patriot Act in 2001, but Democrats protested and succeeded in killing it.
Civil rights lawyers, defense advocates and some former prosecutors say they see no need
to broaden the Justice Department's powers so markedly. Under current law, they say,
terrorism investigators can typically get a subpoena in a matter of hoursor minutes by
going through a judge or a grand jury.
"The fundamental issue here," Nicholas M. Gess, a former federal prosecutor and a senior
aide to the former attorney general Janet Reno, said, "is that at a time of such concern
over civil liberties, there's good reason to have a judge looking over the government's
shoulder."
Mr. Bush's proposal, he said, "means that there are no effective checks and balances. It's
very worrisome."
A second proposal by Mr. Bush would strengthen the government's hand in keeping defendants
charged with terrorism-related crimes in jail pending trial.
But critics like Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, said they believed
the idea also posed risks of limiting the discretion of federal judges and giving the
Justice Department too much power.
Mr. Bush's proposal would require judges to presume that defendants in terrorism-related
offenses should not be allowed out on bail, unless the defense can persuade the judge
otherwise. The proposal defines terrorism to mean acts like murder, kidnapping or computer
attacks intended to "influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or
coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct."
Such no-bail restrictions, which effectively shift the burden of proof from prosecutors to
the defense in determining whether a defendant should be locked up, are already in place
for certain narcotics trafficking offenses and other charges.
"A suspected terrorist could be released, free to leave the country, or worse, before the
trial," Mr. Bush said. "This disparity in the law makes no sense. If dangerous drug
dealers can be held without bail in this way, Congress should allow for the same treatment
for accused terrorists."
Justice Department officials were angered this summer when judges in Alexandria, Va.,
freed on bail four men who were charged with supporting Kashmir terrorists. The judges
said they were not persuaded the men posed a clear danger or a flight risk.
Despite Mr. Bush's concerns, Justice Department officials said they knew of no specific
instances in which a person charged in a terrorism case had fled after being granted bail.
And critics said they were unconvinced the current laws needed fixing.
The third element of Mr. Bush's plan would expand the list of terrorism-related crimes
eligible for death.
Suspects like Zacarias Moussaoui, accused of taking part in the 9/11 conspiracy, already
face the prospect of the death penalty for the most serious terrorist offenses.
But Mr. Specter, who said he had worked on the issue for months before the White House
asked him to sponsor legislation, said his measure would allow execution for "gateway"
crimes like terrorist financing, even if the defendant does not carry outthe attack.
"The financiers are really the principal culprits," he said.
The proposal would also extend the death penalty to a number of other criminal activities,
including sabotage of a defense installation or a nuclear facility.
></snip>
--
siljaline
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
-- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
- Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
Yes please quote the text and the URL. I don't sign up to web sites.
"Kraftee" <kraftee@bogoffspammer.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:_c39b.2185$WI3.29450@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> -=ô;ö=- wrote:
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/na...14PATR.html?hp
> >
> > Gezzzzzzz...Talk about regression to Nazism....
>
> Pity we can't read it without signing up....
>
> --
> B-)
> Life is pain.....
> Deal with it!!
>
>
Bush Seeks to Expand Access to Private Data
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
ASHINGTON, Sept. 13 - For months, President Bush's advisers have assured a
skittish public that law-abiding Americans have no reason to fear the long
reach of the antiterrorism law known as the Patriot Act because its most
intrusive measures would require a judge's sign-off.
But in a plan announced this week to expand counterterrorism powers,
President Bush adopted a very different tack. In a three-point presidential
plan that critics are already dubbing Patriot Act II, Mr. Bush is seeking
broad new authority to allow federal agents - without the approval of a
judge or even a federal prosecutor - to demand private records and compel
testimony.
Mr. Bush also wants to expand the use of the death penalty in crimes like
terrorist financing, and he wants to make it tougher for defendants in such
cases to be freed on bail before trial. These proposals are also sure to
prompt sharp debate, even among Republicans.
Opponents say that the proposal to allow federal agents to issue subpoenas
without the approval of a judge or grand jury will significantly expand the
law enforcement powers granted by Congress after the attacks of Sept. 11,
2001. And they say it will also allow the Justice Department - after months
of growing friction with some judges - to limit the role of the judiciary
still further in terrorism cases.
Indeed, Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, who is sponsoring
the measure to broaden the death penalty, said in an interview that he was
troubled by the other elements of Mr. Bush's plan. He said he wanted to hold
hearings on the president's call for strengthening the Justice Department's
subpoena power "because I'm concerned that it may be too sweeping." The
no-bail proposal concerns him too, the senator said, because "the Justice
Department has gone too far. You have to have a reason to detain."
But administration officials defended Mr. Bush's plan. Even though the
administration is confident that the United States is winning the war on
terrorism, they said, they have run into legal obstacles that need to be
addressed.
"We don't want to tie the hands of prosecutors behind their backs," said
Mark Corallo, a Justice Department spokesman, "and it's our responsibility
when we find weaknesses in the law to make suggestions to Congress on how to
fix them."
In announcing his plan on Wednesday, Mr. Bush said one way to give
authorities stronger tools to fight terrorists was to let agents demand
records through what are known as administrative subpoenas, in order to move
more quickly without waiting for a judge.
The president noted that the government already had the power to use such
subpoenas without a judge's consent to catch "crooked doctors" in health
care fraud cases and other investigations.
The analogy was accurate as far as it went, but what Mr. Bush did not
mention, legal experts said, was that administrative subpoenas are
authorized in health care investigations because they often begin as civil
cases, where grand jury subpoenas cannot be issued.
The Justice Department used administrative subpoenas more than 3,900 times
in a variety of cases in 2001, the last year for which data was available.
The subpoenas are already authorized in more than 300 kinds of
investigations, Mr. Corallo said.
"It's just common sense that we should be able to use this tool against
terrorists too," he said. "It's not a matter of more power. It's the fact
that time is of the essence and we may need to act quickly when a judge or a
grand jury may not be available."
Officials could not cite specific examples in which difficulties in
obtaining a subpoena had slowed a terrorism investigation.
But Mr. Corallo gave a hypothetical example in which the F.B.I. received a
tip in the middle of the night that an unidentified terrorist had traveled
to Boston. Under Mr. Bush's plan, the F.B.I., rather than waiting for a
judicial order, could subpoena all the Boston hotels to get registries for
each of their guests, then run those names against a terrorist database for
a match, he said.
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