Apple and malware

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:16:21 GMT, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, tony@well.com
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:29:50 -0400, Jay T. Blocksom
> <usenet01+SPAMBLOCK@appropriate-tech.net> wrote:
>
> >I would not consider WinXP to be an "upgrade" from Win98SE, let alone a
> >"reasonable" one. I consider it to be flat-out unacceptable from a
> >rights-dilution/usurpation point of view
>
> While 'upgrade' may indeed have been an unfortunate term for what I
> had in mind, Windows users are certainly rapidly being funneled into
> it by the extinguishing species of Windows alternatives.
[snip]

I'm not sure what you mean by that, particularly in light of the fact that
there are more viable alternatives to Windows (in both the numeric and
qualitative sense) today than there were a year ago, and more a year ago
than there were two years ago, and so on.

Beyond that, there remains a strong and widespread market (sometimes
referred to as the "gray market") for used/surplus copies of older versions
of Windows (among other titles). So the fact that MS themselves may no
longer be shipping Win98SE, or Win2K, or whatever, does *NOT* mean you
cannot set up a system using those versions, if that's what you want to do.

> Hence the
> frustration that prompted me to start this thread.
>
[snip]

Understood. But *do* be sure to read my direct f'up to your original post
(Message-ID: <fi0alvkalfiao6kgsmkg38tgvbi52qc059@news.rcn.com>) . The folks
who have been simplistically telling you that Macs are "not vulnerable" and
that there can be no such thing as spyware, virii, etc., in non-Windows
environments are... well... "full of crap" is probably putting it too
mildly.

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

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[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:10:39 GMT, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, null@zilch.com
wrote:
>
> From: null@zilch.com
[snip]

Is your name "Carlos Ojeda"?

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
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[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:13:06 GMT, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, null@zilch.com
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:20:11 +0100, Paul <paul@streetka.biz> wrote:
>
[snip]

> >It's truly horrible. W98 was, in it's time, good. ME was a giant leap
> >backwards, it was clunky, unstable, bug-ridden and has made me more
> >money sorting out problems it caused than 3.11,95, 98 and 98SE combined.
>
> Sorry you had such a bad experience.
[snip]

You didn't read Paul's article very carefully, did you?

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:07:01 -0400, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, "mto"
<nobody@dontsendmeanyspam.thanks> wrote:
>
> "Jay T. Blocksom" <usenet01+SPAMBLOCK@appropriate-tech.net> wrote in
> message news:g83alvs6omnt7ib7teraj6guti3oh63gmk@news.rcn.c om...
> > On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:13:48 -0400, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, "mto"
> > <nobody@dontsendmeanyspam.thanks> wrote:
> > >
[snip]

> > > ...and never was anything
> > > more than a bad - and very slow - copy of the Mac OS.
> > >
> >
> > Not true.
> >
> > The closest you can get to that is that they are *both* conceptual
> > rip-offs of the Xerox "Star".
> >
> > --
>
> No idiot - I am referring to the f***ing interface - MAC.
[snip]

Do you always proclaim the loudest those things about which you are the most
completely, totally, utterly, and absolutely WRONG? Or is this a special
case?

> The idea of a
> mouse, clickable menus, etc. etc. etc. That is MAC.
[snip]

After they ripped it off from Xerox, as had a whole bunch of other outfits
(Digital Research, IBM, Quarterdeck, VisiCorp, to name a few), mostly
*before* the Mac was ever heard of.

> And FAR more than
> Eudora started out on MAC -
[snip]

I never said that Eudora was the *only* app to have been originally
developed for the Mac, then migrate to the wider Windows audience. I simply
took issue with your obviously bogus claim that "nearly everything you see
now as Windows started life as Mac" by noting that Eudora is one of a
relatively small group of popular applications which *did* do precisely
that. Please try to keep up.

> Word was originall a Mac program,
[snip]

Wrong again.

MS-Word started out as an MS-DOS application, *long* before the Mac was ever
introduced.

> WordPerfect,
[snip]

Wrong *again*.

WordPerfect was a very popular MS-DOS application *long* before the Mac was
ever introduced; but even that is not the platform upon which it started
out. I'll wager you don't even know who the original author/publisher of
WordPerfect was. (No, points will *not* be awarded for you frantically
searching the web to come up with a now-too-late answer -- but if you manage
to correctly identify the original platform, I'll restrain my cat from
clawing your eyes out if/when you two should ever meet.)

As I said to someone else here back in June, the following quotation is
variously attributed to both Abraham Lincoln and Francois Marie Arouet (pen
name "Voltaire"). But regardless of which one (if either) really said it,
you'd be well-advised to listen:

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.

Think you can wrap your tiny little mind around that concept?

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:24:52 -0400, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, Davoud
<star@sky.net> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> That's like saying that Leif Ericson was the first European to discover
> America. Maybe he was the first to set foot here, but neither he nor
> anyone else involved knew that he had found anything of value. Thus, we
> have Columbus Day, not Leif Ericson Day.
>
[snip]

That is *not* why we (FSVO "we") have Columbus Day.

> Likewise, credit for the mouse, the GUI, the CD-ROM, USB, FireWire
> (which actually was an Apple invention), and, above all else, the
> enormous power that is conveyed by ease-of-use, belongs solely to Apple
[snip]

No, it doesn't. It is merely often misattributed there by dim-bulbs who
don't know what they're talking about.

Speaking of dim bulbs... I suppose you'd grant credit for inventing the
light bulb to General Electric and/or Sylvania, simply because they were
among the first to commercially exploit that invention on a large scale?

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 05:31:02 GMT, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, Jack
<see.sig@below.my.post> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> Jay is correct. Xerox's GUI (Graphical User Interface) concept dates
> to before before Jobs and Wozniak ever ventured into the garage they
> designed and built the original Apple. IIRC, Xerox's GUI never made it
> to market,
[snip]

Yes, it was marketed, just not very successfully (by mass-market standards
of "successful", anyway).

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 04:26:32 GMT, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, Randall Bart
<Barticus@att.spam.net> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> Benz was second, Daimler was third, Ford was forth, all in 1896.
[snip]

You're off by about ten years. Karl Benz was granted a patent on a
motor-driven carriage (i.e., "automobile") on January 29, 1886:

<http://www.autonews.com/files/euroauto/inductees/benz.htm>

The public introduction was on July 3 of that same year, with marketing
(most notably spearheaded by his wife) to follow.

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:22:26 -0400, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, "mto"
<nobody@dontsendmeanyspam.thanks> wrote:
>
> "Jack" <see.sig@below.my.post> wrote in message
> news:e1idlvglo79r53pl44nu462970ibpdte4e@4ax.com...
[snip]
> >
> > Jay is correct. Xerox's GUI (Graphical User Interface) concept dates
> > to before before Jobs and Wozniak ever ventured into the garage they
> > designed and built the original Apple. IIRC, Xerox's GUI never made it
> > to market, while Apple designed theirs into the MacIntosh. Shortly
> > afterward, MS introduced Windows. (Hell, even Commodore-64 had a GUI
> > (GEOS) by the mid-late '80s).
> >
>
> More than "shortly" afterward - not until Bill saw the great danger to
> his miserably chunky DOS did he copy the MAC interface.
[snip]

Bzzzzt. Wrong, yet AGAIN.

Development of Windows (then called "Interface Manager") began more than two
years *before* the Mac was introduced. It didn't actually hit store shelves
until '85 (the Mac was introduced in '84), due mostly to the fact that the
whole "desktop metaphor" was a hotbed of rapidly changing developments
(read: "moving targets") back then, so the project kept getting pushed back
and reworked.

> Someone before Ford
> built a car - but do you remember his name?
[snip]

Several names, in fact: Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz being chief among
them, not least because they actually *marketed* the autombile before Ford
did -- and you can't say "they did nothing with it" <http://www.mbusa.com/>.

> Xerox might have invented the
> concept - but they did nothing with it. Last Xerox machine I saw wouldn't
> fit on my desktop by a longshot
>

Sure looks fit for a desktop, to me:

<http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/xerox-8010/star.jpg>

(I think we should start a pool... "When will 'mto' get something,
ANYTHING, right?" I'm in for a buck that says, "the 12th of Never.")

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NOTE: E-Mail address in "From:" line is INVALID! Remove +SPAMBLOCK to mail.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this E-Mail address is expressly prohibited
under USC Title 47, Section 227. Violators are subject to charge of up to
$1,500 per incident or treble actual costs, whichever is greater.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[tony@well.com]

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 19:20:22 -0400, Jay T. Blocksom
<usenet01+SPAMBLOCK@appropriate-tech.net> wrote:

> So the fact that MS themselves may no
>longer be shipping Win98SE, or Win2K, or whatever, does *NOT* mean you
>cannot set up a system using those versions, if that's what you want to do.

Today's computers and software are sophisticated enough for any number
of solutions to a problem. But as I indicated in my original post, I
want to simplify my life, not compete in cleverness with my electronic
gadgetry. I want a machine that will run and produce with a minimum
amount of attention and involvement on my part. Tinkering is no longer
amusing or rewarding.

> The folks
>who have been simplistically telling you that Macs are "not vulnerable" and
>that there can be no such thing as spyware, virii, etc., in non-Windows
>environments are... well... "full of crap" is probably putting it too
>mildly.

Noted.

T.
========================
Tony Roder, speaking his mind....

[Randall Bart]

'Twas Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:56:16 GMT when all alt.privacy.spyware stood in
awe as LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) uttered:

>Nicolas Joseph Cugnot...
>
> http://inventors.about.com/library/w...carssteama.htm
> The History of the Automobile - Steam Cars
>
> "...In 1769, the very first self-propelled road vehicle was a military
> tractor invented by French engineer and mechanic, Nicolas Joseph
> Cugnot (1725 - 1804). Cugnot used a steam engine to power his vehicle,
> built under his instructions at the Paris Arsenal by mechanic Brezin.
> It was used by the French Army to haul artillery at a whopping speed
> of 2 1/2 mph on only three wheels. The vehicle had to stop every ten
> to fifteen minutes to build up steam power. The steam engine and
> boiler were separate from the rest of the vehicle and placed in the
> front (see engraving above). The following year (1770), Cugnot built a
> steam-powered tricycle that carried four passengers.
>
> In 1771, Cugnot drove one of his road vehicles into a stone wall,
> making Cugnot the first person to get into a motor vehicle accident.
> This was the beginning of bad luck for the inventor. After one of
> Cugnot's patrons died and the other was exiled, the money for Cugnot's
> road vehicle experiments ended..."

Thank you. The way it was presented on some PBS show, he crashed his
first day out and gave up. This paints a very different picture. It
seems Cugnot was memorable character after all. The vehicle was
impractical in its time, and could only exist through the largesse of
patrons. Genius inventors are always hindered by the primitive tools they
have to work with.
--
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