Spybot Search and Destroy ??

[null@zilch.com]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 04:08:27 GMT, Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:

>> You are tilting at windmills. The browser war is over. Microsoft won,
>> whether any of us like it or not. The 95% of all computer users that use IE
>
>I am not so sure the war is over.
>
>My company's website used to show a similar pattern -- 95% IE (excluding
>the robots). However, after we fixed the Netscape compatibility issues,
>it's now 66%/33%. In other words, there are a lot of frustrated Netscape
>users out there who use Netscape whenever they can and IE when
>forced to.

I'd go further and say flat out that the so-called browser war is far
from over. It's just begun. Mozilla 1.5a is "the cat's meow". Insofar
as being forced to use IE at poorly designed web sites, I used to use
Opera for that, but I've not had to do that at all in recent weeks.
Also, note that Opera can be set to appear as IE or Netscape so your
statistics aren't reliable.

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

[mto]

<null@zilch.com> wrote in message
newsp1sjvcsv5bhtu2a4ckl2k09127nbojot7@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 04:08:27 GMT, Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:
>
> >> You are tilting at windmills. The browser war is over. Microsoft won,
> >> whether any of us like it or not. The 95% of all computer users that
use IE
> >
> >I am not so sure the war is over.
> >
> >My company's website used to show a similar pattern -- 95% IE (excluding
> >the robots). However, after we fixed the Netscape compatibility issues,
> >it's now 66%/33%. In other words, there are a lot of frustrated Netscape
> >users out there who use Netscape whenever they can and IE when
> >forced to.
>
> I'd go further and say flat out that the so-called browser war is far
> from over. It's just begun. Mozilla 1.5a is "the cat's meow". Insofar
> as being forced to use IE at poorly designed web sites, I used to use
> Opera for that, but I've not had to do that at all in recent weeks.
> Also, note that Opera can be set to appear as IE or Netscape so your
> statistics aren't reliable.

My website has always been 100% Netscape compatible - and I've always gone
to great lengths to keep it that way. There was a time that my site traffic
was ~50/50, but that was years ago. For several years now a good 85% plus
of my users are using IE. About 10% of the remainder use WebTV. Perhaps it
simply depends on the subject matter of the particular website. Current
figures internet-wide gathered by the various marketing agencies run ~95%
IE. No clue whether they include WebTV in that (it is a very low end IE) or
if the WebTV phenomenon is simply finally running its course now that the
price of a real machine has gone so low.

Personally I used Netscape from the day it was introduced "way back when"
until version 4.7, which crashed literally every 15 minutes and required a
total reboot. After weeks of mucking around with the thing I got fed up -
one simply cannot develop websites while rebooting the miserable machine
every 15 minutes - so I trashed the thing. Hated to do it BUT ..... and as
far as Opera goes, I tried that a few years back. Some features were nice -
but many were missing. And it was useless as far as checking pages for
browser compatibility. When I eventually removed the program the machine
was so completely fouled up that I ended up having to disconnect the spare
drive where all the good stuff lives and reinstall the OS. NOT amused.

My position is this: fool me once, stupid you - fool me twice, stupid me.
I don't *like* IE - it does have its problems - but it is stable and fast
(at least in comparison to Netscape 4.7). I have never once seen a blue
screen of death like Net4.7 caused and can work online for 24 hours if I
want to without a reboot. Better the problems that I know than a whole new
set waiting for an unguarded moment in my opinion.

I have never once at any time - despite a huge volume of virus traffic
through my website email address - been infected with a virus or trojan.
About the worst that any AdAware/Spybot type program has ever found on my
machine is gif-bots in the cache. So whatever I am doing - which I have
historically always done - is working well. As far as I am concerned, if it
ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't happen to believe that any of the alternatives to IE are
*necessarily* any more secure than IE - just most idiots out looking to
exploit problems look first to IE in order to do the maximum damage. Not
much point in figuring out how to hack a browser that 10 people in the
universe use

[Jay T. Blocksom]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:28:11 -0400, in <alt.privacy.spyware>, "mto"
<nobody@dontsendmeanyspam.thanks> wrote:
>
[snip]

> For several years now a good
> 85% plus of my users are using IE. About 10% of the remainder use WebTV.
> Perhaps it simply depends on the subject matter of the particular
> website.
[snip]

If anything even approaching 10% of your traffic is from WebTV weenies, I'd
venture that you just said a mouthful.

> Personally I used Netscape from the day it was introduced "way back when"
> until version 4.7, which crashed literally every 15 minutes and required
> a total reboot. After weeks of mucking around with the thing I got fed
> up - one simply cannot develop websites while rebooting the miserable
> machine every 15 minutes - so I trashed the thing.
[snip]

While 4.7 was not Netscape's "finest hour", it also wasn't anywhere near
*that* bad. If your claim is truthful, and you really had to reboot your
system every 15 minutes, then there was unquestionably *something* wrong
with either your hardware, your system setup, or your particular copy of NS
4.7 -- in about that order of likelihood.

> and as
> far as Opera goes, I tried that a few years back. Some features were
> nice - but many were missing.
[snip]

Such as? (Note, I'm not asking about proprietary "whistles and bells" (most
of which cause more problems than they cure); but rather, legitimate
standards-based web browser functions.)

> And it was useless as far as checking
> pages for browser compatibility.
[snip]

On what possible basis could you conclude that? If anything, the opposite
is true. Granted, some versions of Opera (particularly the later ones) have
various "issues" in my book; but none of those concerns relate in any way to
the fact that, even going back as far as v3.x, Opera was/is one of *the*
most standards-compliant web browsers extant (the latest versions of
Mozilla, et al, are just starting to be comparable in this respect). If a
given page does not render correctly in Opera, it is near-certainly the
page's (or rather, its author's) fault. [This presumes, of course, a
"stable" version of Opera -- meaning, essentially, the last "minor" release
in any of the major release series (with the possible exception of 4.x,
which was never fully de-bugged because development was short-circuited by
the move to the 5.x "AdWare" model).]

> When I eventually removed the program the machine
> was so completely fouled up that I ended up having to disconnect the
> spare drive where all the good stuff lives and reinstall the OS. NOT
> amused.
>
[snip]

This further reinforces the notion that your system setup was screwed up to
begin with.

> My position is this: fool me once, stupid you - fool me twice, stupid
> me.
[snip]

Then WHY do you permit yourself to be "fooled" dozens, or hundreds, or
thousands of times by MSIE/OE?!? That simply isn't rational. How many
times have you had to count on a third-party utility (such as your AV
program) to save your ass from the latest trojan/virus/worm that _would_
have been a complete non-issue save for the presence of MSIE/OE? Beyond
that, how many times have you had to apply patch, over update, over patch,
ad infinitum, ad nauseum, just to "fix" the latest variation on the same
tired old theme of MSIE/OE's *inherently* insecure nature -- a nature which
is rooted in fundamental design (and design philosophy) flaws that NO
"patch" or "update" can possibly really fix?

> I don't happen to believe that any of the alternatives to IE are
> *necessarily* any more secure than IE
[snip]

Then, obviously, you have no understanding of how the programs in question
actually function.

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

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