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Thread: OT : Privacy & Spam

  1. #1
    John Fitzsimons Guest

    OT : Privacy & Spam


    From another newsgroup :


    Web firms Pick Profits over Privac
    -------------------------------------------- Policies can conceal sale
    of customer data By Jonathan Krim --THE WASHINGTON POST July 1-- To
    parents interested in buying the popular Hooked on Phonics
    learn-to-read programs, the company made a firm promise on its Web
    site: It would never sell or rent their personal information to other
    marketers.

    BUT THAT PLEDGE was empty. In the pages of a marketing trade
    publication, Gateway Learning Corp., the product’s California-based
    parent company, was advertising to rent the list of Hooked on Phonics
    buyers to other marketers. At a price of $95 per 1,000 names,
    companies could arrange to have unsolicited advertising sent to
    105,936 people who bought Hooked on Phonics in the past year. Included
    in the information made available to other marketers: ages of the
    buyers’ children. After inquiries from The Washington Post, the
    company changed its privacy policy and is no longer promising to keep
    such data from being offered to others. A company spokeswoman said the
    firm was simply slow to update its policy. Previous customers would be
    notified of the change and offered the chance to remove themselves
    from the list, she said.

    • Federal Trade Commission seeks more power to fight junk e-mail •
    Anti-spam bill gains ground in the Senate

    Hooked on Phonics is one example of retailers, marketers and an array
    of service providers expanding their collection and use of consumers’
    e-mail addresses and other personal information, despite broad
    assurances to protect individual privacy and honor consumers’ choices
    about how much marketing they want to receive.

    FISHING FOR VICTIMS Many firms use tactics designed to hide their
    intent to gather and profit from the data they collect, information
    that grows in value as more and more people use the Internet for
    information and shopping. “Companies continually troll for, and
    exploit, personally identifiable information,” said Joseph Turow, a
    media professor at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in
    mass marketing. “Some Web sites unabashedly collect all the
    information they can about visitors and market [it] as aggressively as
    they can to advertisers and other marketers.” But these techniques
    have drawn scant attention as the flood of unwanted commercial e-mail
    has reached tidal-wave proportions. Instead, retailers, advertisers
    and Internet service providers such as Microsoft Corp., America Online
    and Yahoo Inc. have so far successfully lobbied government regulators
    to put the spotlight on deceptive practices of the most unsavory
    purveyors of scams and pornography. ‘Some Web sites unabashedly
    collect all the information they can about visitors and market [it] as
    aggressively as they can to advertisers and other marketers.’ — JOSEPH
    TUROW media professor, University of Pennsylvania

    Mallory Duncan, senior vice president and general counsel of the
    National Retail Federation, argues that mainstream corporations can
    police their own marketing practices. “The concern with spam is not
    with the Gap coupon you receive,” said Duncan, who represents the
    largest lobbying and trade group for store owners. “It’s the huge
    amount of porn and other things that were unsolicited.”

    FROM JESUS TO CHRISTOPHER REEVE With the onslaught of spam, almost all
    companies promise not to sell consumer data. But many don’t mention
    that such information is rented. This means that the list owner won’t
    release the data to an outside marketer, but it will send messages to
    the list on the outsider’s behalf. Targeted lists available for rent
    number in the thousands, including those from magazines, professional
    organizations and even political interest groups such as Republicans
    for Jesus. Recently, for example, the Christopher Reeve Paralysis
    Foundation advertised that its list of donors, including postal
    addresses, was for rent. A charity spokeswoman said that the rental
    list includes data only from donors who gave through direct-mail
    appeals, not online. But she acknowledged that those people were
    provided no privacy information; the charity’s Web site says it will
    never sell or share e-mail addresses of donors. Direct-mail donors
    will now be given a chance to remove their names from the donor list,
    the spokeswoman said, adding that the organization’s lists are offered
    only to “like-minded” groups. Sometimes, consumers may not be aware
    they are handing over information to vendors working behind the scenes
    at certain Web sites. Take CartManager, a Provo, Utah, company that is
    one of many providers of “shopping cart” software used by online
    retailers. Merchants use the service to manage their transactions.
    Customers select items, put them in virtual shopping carts, and
    provide appropriate billing and shipping information to complete the
    order. The company, which handles transactions for dozens of small Web
    retailers, last month offered for rent its list of 781,000 postal and
    e-mail addresses of consumers who “regularly buy online.”
    CartManager’s privacy policy states that it might share such
    information. But a consumer might not even notice the fine print
    stating that a retailer’s shopping cart is “powered by” CartManager,
    let alone look at the firm’s privacy policy. The transaction is done
    through the Web site of the retailer, whose privacy policy is more
    likely to be scrutinized by concerned consumers. CartManager
    executives did not respond to requests seeking comment.

    In some cases, marketers are open about their intent, if people take
    the time to read the privacy policies on Web sites closely. Some sites
    essentially exist to collect e-mail addresses and other personal data
    to allow future marketing. To entice people to hand over the data,
    they offer discounts on products or entry into sweepstakes. But in a
    research study Turow supervised for the University of Pennsylvania, 57
    percent of 1,200 adults who use the Internet at home thought that if a
    Web site merely has a privacy policy, their information would not be
    shared with others. To expand their databases even further, some
    marketers employ a controversial technique known as “e-mail append.”
    List brokers, who buy and sell consumer data for companies, take names
    and physical addresses in one firm’s database and look for
    corresponding e-mail addresses in outside lists that might contain
    enough information to match them up. Columnist Jay Gibson explained
    the process in a recent edition of Opt-In News, an online publication
    for marketers. For example, a pizza restaurant cannot send e-mails
    about new services to a customer who orders over the phone because an
    e-mail address is not provided, Gibson wrote. “But they can take my
    name, physical address and telephone number, submit this information
    to an e-mail append service, and acquire it.”

    ‘WEED THOSE PEOPLE OUT’ ‘The whole industry that we’re involved with
    relies on . . . integrity and a self-policing environment. But there
    are a lot of people out there that don’t play by the rules.’ — PAUL
    CHACHKO CEO, Datagence Paul Chachko, chief executive of Datagence, a
    firm that provides e-mail append, said the service can be performed
    properly by reconfirming with all consumers on the lists that they
    wish to receive marketing messages. “The whole industry that we’re
    involved with relies on . . . integrity and a self-policing
    environment,” Chachko said. “But there are a lot of people out there
    that don’t play by the rules. We’ve got to weed those people out.”
    Marketing executives say they have instituted strict self-policing
    guidelines, including ensuring that consumers have the ability to “opt
    out” of receiving future advertising marketing messages.

    But opting out is not always easy.

    Bluefly Inc., an online retailer, has an extensive privacy policy. “We
    take this matter very seriously, and have instituted many policies and
    procedures to insure that none of your privacy rights as stated herein
    are ever violated,” the policy says. The policy tells users that
    anytime they e-mail the company, they consent to receive messages from
    the company. But to be removed from future messages, users must e-mail
    the company. A spokesman said the company would not send marketing
    messages to people who e-mailed requesting to be removed from future
    advertising.

    CITIBANK’S APPROACH ‘We continually review our performance, and
    believe our procedures have been extremely effective in providing for
    the privacy preferences of our customers.’ — CITIBANK in a statement
    concerning online marketing Citibank’s parent, Citigroup Inc.,
    requires customers of any of its hundreds of affiliates to tell each
    one that it wants to stop receiving marketing messages. Citibank has
    been the object of more than 30 complaints to the Federal Trade
    Commission over the past year by consumers charging that the company
    has failed to honor their requests to remove their names from lists,
    or made it nearly impossible to do so. An FTC spokeswoman said the
    agency has not acted on the complaints, adding that it has received
    more than 1,000 similar complaints about a range of companies. In a
    statement, Citibank said, “We continually review our performance, and
    believe our procedures have been extremely effective in providing for
    the privacy preferences of our customers.” Marketing and retailing
    executives want any anti-spam legislation to treat affiliates as
    separate entities, on the theory that customers of different products
    don’t always pay attention to corporate relationships among companies.
    Microsoft, which like many Internet providers markets to its members,
    recently proposed a system in which industry would agree to an
    electronic seal-of-approval process that e-mail networks could
    recognize and allow legitimate marketing through. Among the criteria
    for such a seal would be that requests of users to be removed from
    marketing lists would be honored. But privacy advocates and anti-spam
    groups are dubious about industry governing itself. Instead, they want
    computer users to be free of commercial e-mail unless they
    specifically request it, a system known as “opt-in.” Marketing and
    Internet industry lobbyists have successfully warded off this
    approach, while at the same time co-opting the phrase. In marketing
    parlance, opt-in means that consumers have not specifically asked to
    be removed from mailing lists.

    OPTING-IN BY ACCIDENT ‘Some companies, like psycho ex-boyfriends, tend
    to see relationships where they don’t exist.’ --CHRIS MURRAY
    legislative counsel, Consumers Union

    Thus, nearly all available e-mail lists are advertised as opt-in
    lists. But according to some in the industry, opt-in is at best a
    sliding scale. “If you forget to check a box [asking to be eliminated]
    from further marketing, that’s technically opt-in,” said Sherri Jones,
    a vice president at TKL Interactive, a Southern California marketing
    firm. She said her firm sends e-mails to all list members asking them
    to confirm that they want to receive further advertising, a process
    known as “double opt-in.” Jones said that to regain credibility, her
    industry must move to a true opt-in system, in which no marketing
    occurs before a user requests it. “The opt-in procedure puts the
    control of the transaction in the hands of the consumer,” she said,
    separating herself from her industry’s trade groups. “That’s a
    dramatic paradigm shift that I think a lot of old-school marketers are
    resisting.” Industry officials counter that if they don’t have the
    right to approach consumers at least once, people will be deprived of
    potentially valuable offers that they would otherwise not hear about.
    Marketers also insist that they maintain the right to send messages to
    customers with which they have “existing business relationships.”
    Consumer groups say that this makes sense if that means a customer has
    recently purchased a product, but it should not apply if he or she
    merely requests information. “Some companies, like psycho
    ex-boyfriends, tend to see relationships where they don’t exist,” said
    Chris Murray, legislative counsel for Consumers Union.

    © 2003 The Washington Post Company

  2. #2
    msd13 Guest

    Re: OT : Privacy & Spam

    On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:34:06 +1000, John Fitzsimons
    <xpm4senn001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

    Thanks John, makes interesting reading - I especially liked this part:

    Quote:
    >But privacy advocates and anti-spam
    >groups are dubious about industry governing itself. Instead, they want
    >computer users to be free of commercial e-mail unless they
    >specifically request it, a system known as “opt-in.” Marketing and
    >Internet industry lobbyists have successfully warded off this
    >approach, while at the same time co-opting the phrase. In marketing
    >parlance, opt-in means that consumers have not specifically asked to
    >be removed from mailing lists.


    And the article ends on a postive note with a marketeer devising a
    system where the customer is asked if they wish to receive and direct
    mail by the marketing company, although it didn't disclose the source
    of the list members I assume they are existing customers, if not, then
    to me at least it would be a little annoying if only for the simple
    but admittedly irrational (in regards one particular company) fact..
    that, I've had more than enough junk mail for several hundred
    lifetimes worth of reading, and I can't help being reminded of it and
    end up making generalisations.

    I don't think the world would fall apart if there was hardly any
    marketing at all. If there was just a business telephone directory
    people would be able to work it out when they really need something.
    About 99.9% of the information we take in each day is disgardable I
    reacon, especially when I'm making up statistics on the spot like that
    and not adding anything particulary interesting or constructive, but
    then that may cause the reader to perhaps think what they are doing
    with their time. )



  3. #3
    John Corliss Guest

    Re: OT : Privacy & Spam

    msd13 wrote:

    > I don't think the world would fall apart if there was hardly any
    > marketing at all.



    AMEN!!!!!


    --
    Regards from John Corliss
    alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
    http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html


  4. #4
    -=ô;ö=- Guest

    Re: Privacy & Spam


    "John Fitzsimons" <xpm4senn001@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
    news:dtc4gvs0ntclp756e7ed0cphhrjqpgbrei@4ax.com...
    :
    [Snipped}

    Thanks much, John....

    One thing I discovered is these companies and charities feed upon the
    seniors more so, I spent 2 weeks with my 80 yr old mom and was amazed at all
    the junk spam and charity floods in her snail mail(average 10 a day)..that
    would be an excellent place to include in the internet spam scams, stop the
    snail mail scam/spammers too..



  5. #5
    John Corliss Guest

    Re: OT : Privacy & Spam

    Jason de Bougainville wrote:
    > John Corliss wrote:
    >>msd13 wrote:
    >>
    >>>I don't think the world would fall apart if there was hardly any
    >>>marketing at all.

    >>
    >>AMEN!!!!!

    >
    > Do you really want to see all those postal workers unemployed? Not to
    > mention the people who pick up the trash, how many of them would be out of
    > work?
    >
    > The world would not fall apart if there were no marketing but there would be
    > serious consequences for those already mentioned as well as the people
    > working in the shops that make the products, those who transport it and
    > those who sell it!!!!!


    Yep, you're breaking my heart! 80)>

    --
    Regards from John Corliss
    alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
    http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html


  6. #6
    msd13 Guest

    Re: OT : Privacy & Spam

    On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 2156 -0400, Jason de Bougainville
    <jasondebouganiville@comcast.net> wrote:

    >John Corliss wrote:
    >
    >> msd13 wrote:
    >>
    >>> I don't think the world would fall apart if there was hardly any
    >>> marketing at all.

    >>
    >> AMEN!!!!!

    >
    >Do you really want to see all those postal workers unemployed? Not to
    >mention the people who pick up the trash, how many of them would be out of
    >work?
    >
    >The world would not fall apart if there were no marketing but there would be
    >serious consequences for those already mentioned as well as the people
    >working in the shops that make the products, those who transport it and
    >those who sell it!!!!!


    There would be less junk mail when they got home for one. The postmans
    osteopath would have to give the postmans wife back handers and the
    postman would have to watch the home shopping channel 3 hours a day to
    pay the osteopaths bank manager so he can afford the loans ! My
    "jokes" aside.. I don't know what the term is when something is taken
    to be good "just because" but thats what you are doing, you are saying
    trade is good - "just because", theres a lot of evidence that trade is
    "bad", "just because" but I don't really want to go there right now.
    I'm just saying that perhaps..ah..the word, I'm clever now...the
    axiom, is..ah, no longer am I clever..is axiomatic.

    A lot of what goverments stand for makes sense, I mean the underlying
    principles make sense. People want shelter, they need food,
    understanding one another helps towards finding a satisfying life
    while we are here - so, education, and health care and all that ! But
    endless tool production for the sake of it at the expense of resources
    which if they are to be replenished brings us into various conflicts
    of one sort or another, the catalyst of such is necessarily good all
    the time...that is what market forces dictate, it's a machine that is
    "blind" (imho) and when it is wrong there is nobody but everyone to
    put it right and that everyone is just individuals acting through
    whatever means to get a government to make the laws. Sometimes it's
    only up to the government, like when Mr Clinton stepped in to stop a
    load of private investors having patents on each little bit of the
    human genome DNA. There were a few people in the scientific community
    and then on the other side the whole marketplace, but because it would
    effect health care sense for once made it through, the sense being the
    greater good...or "maximising long term prospects" in marketing
    jargon. I think things like that are worth feeling good about.

    Anyhow, we arn't in a dictatorship even if you argue thats only a
    technicality you can at least say that safe in the knowledge that we
    are "supposedly not in a dictatorship" and can fully expect some kind
    of answer, and given that we can all put forward whatever ideas we
    want as to how things could be to see if they are workable or not.
    What proof do you have that the effects of less marketing would not be
    satisfactory, how come other cultures have got by for hundreds and
    thousands of years without hardly so much of it. </rant> ;o)


  7. #7
    sponge Guest

    Re: OT : Privacy & Spam

    On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:34:06 +1000, John Fitzsimons
    <xpm4senn001@sneakemail.com> wrote:

    >
    >From another newsgroup :
    >
    >
    >Web firms Pick Profits over Privac


    Solution:

    www.junkbusters.org

    If you feel comfortable entering your name, address, and other stuff,
    their form system will auto-generate letters for you. Print them and
    slap a stamp on them, and that's all. If you don't EVER give out your
    real info online (which I recommend), visit
    http://www.junkbusters.com/optout.html for pre-printed form letters.
    Just edit in your name and address, and perhaps other info, print them
    out, and send 'em.

    Many of the Junkbuster's steps will prevent info collected on you by
    marketers from being redistributed -- particularly if you write
    Axciom, Doubleclick, your bank and credit card companies. While it may
    not prevent spam and spyware from doing data collection -- since they
    often operate below and outside the law anyway -- you still should
    consider online privacy and security a completely separate issue from
    the supposedly "legitimate" forms of direct marketing.

    I recommend circulating this to every one you know. (Without spamming,
    of course!)

    Sponge
    Sponge's Security Site
    www.geocities.com/yosponge

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