Re: LoJack for Laptops

[Dustin]

M.L. <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:mmqu675d480ff9p46tefg6mrf9tfhpv3am@4ax.com:

>>>>> What I suppose I really mean to ask is , if there is *no* BIOS
>>>>> persistence, surely by using FDISK or Partition Magic, the
>>>>> persistency can easily be removed, can't it? (even by someone like
>>>>> me!<vbg>)
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, under normal usage of the tools; probably not. If you get
>>>> crazy and direct write zeros from start to last track; then yes,
>>>> she's history.
>
> Didn't this discussion already rule out disabling LoJack via the hard
> drive?

Depending on the conditions, yes and no. BD and some others? obviously
don't read what I write, or are too selective in skimming it.




--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

[~BD~]

Dustin wrote:
> M.L.<me@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:mmqu675d480ff9p46tefg6mrf9tfhpv3am@4ax.com:
>
>>>>>> What I suppose I really mean to ask is , if there is *no* BIOS
>>>>>> persistence, surely by using FDISK or Partition Magic, the
>>>>>> persistency can easily be removed, can't it? (even by someone like
>>>>>> me!<vbg>)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm, under normal usage of the tools; probably not. If you get
>>>>> crazy and direct write zeros from start to last track; then yes,
>>>>> she's history.
>>
>> Didn't this discussion already rule out disabling LoJack via the hard
>> drive?
>
> Depending on the conditions, yes and no. BD and some others? obviously
> don't read what I write, or are too selective in skimming it.

BD reads your every word.

I have misunderstood nothing.

Perhaps it is *you* who is skimming this time, Dustin! ;-)

[G. Morgan]

~BD~ wrote:

>> Yes, if there *is* BIOS persistence. Without BIOS persistence it
>> is still possible to persist if the code in the partition gaps isn't
>> defeated.
>>
>>
>
>I agree.

I'm sure he's happy you concur!

[Dustin]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in
news:j4o47f$2gq$2@dont-email.me:

> Dustin wrote:
>> M.L.<me@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:mmqu675d480ff9p46tefg6mrf9tfhpv3am@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>>>> What I suppose I really mean to ask is , if there is *no* BIOS
>>>>>>> persistence, surely by using FDISK or Partition Magic, the
>>>>>>> persistency can easily be removed, can't it? (even by someone
>>>>>>> like me!<vbg>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm, under normal usage of the tools; probably not. If you get
>>>>>> crazy and direct write zeros from start to last track; then
>>>>>> yes, she's history.
>>>
>>> Didn't this discussion already rule out disabling LoJack via the
>>> hard drive?
>>
>> Depending on the conditions, yes and no. BD and some others?
>> obviously don't read what I write, or are too selective in skimming
>> it.
>
> BD reads your every word.
>
> I have misunderstood nothing.
>
> Perhaps it is *you* who is skimming this time, Dustin! ;-)

Nope. I answered the question you presented with my initial discussion
on what lojack was and wasn't. the fact you asked the same question
again after my lengthly (no, I didn't provide source code, lol)
explanation tells me you didn't understand what I wrote.

So, while you might read every word I post; instead of stopping and
asking questions when you don't understand something, you go on as if
you do, leaving me to wrongly assume it's okay to get more technical.

This doesn't help either of us. I'm under the false impression you're
following along, and I'm leaving you behind in reality. I don't want to
do that. If I'm trying to teach you something and you don't understand
something I wrote, please stop! and say so.

I'm not trying to brag with my skills or when I try to teach; I just
assume (wrongly of me) that it's okay to get more technical because I
think you're on the same page, not still at the front of the book. [g]


--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

[~BD~]

G. Morgan wrote:
> ~BD~ wrote:
>
>>> Yes, if there *is* BIOS persistence. Without BIOS persistence it
>>> is still possible to persist if the code in the partition gaps isn't
>>> defeated.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I agree.
>
> I'm sure he's happy you concur!
>

FTR has gone rather quiet of late.

I hope all is well with him at home.

[~BD~]

Dustin wrote:
> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in
> news:j4o47f$2gq$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> Dustin wrote:
>>> M.L.<me@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:mmqu675d480ff9p46tefg6mrf9tfhpv3am@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>>>> What I suppose I really mean to ask is , if there is *no* BIOS
>>>>>>>> persistence, surely by using FDISK or Partition Magic, the
>>>>>>>> persistency can easily be removed, can't it? (even by someone
>>>>>>>> like me!<vbg>)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm, under normal usage of the tools; probably not. If you get
>>>>>>> crazy and direct write zeros from start to last track; then
>>>>>>> yes, she's history.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't this discussion already rule out disabling LoJack via the
>>>> hard drive?
>>>
>>> Depending on the conditions, yes and no. BD and some others?
>>> obviously don't read what I write, or are too selective in skimming
>>> it.
>>
>> BD reads your every word.
>>
>> I have misunderstood nothing.
>>
>> Perhaps it is *you* who is skimming this time, Dustin! ;-)
>
> Nope. I answered the question you presented with my initial discussion
> on what lojack was and wasn't. the fact you asked the same question
> again after my lengthly (no, I didn't provide source code, lol)
> explanation tells me you didn't understand what I wrote.
>
> So, while you might read every word I post; instead of stopping and
> asking questions when you don't understand something, you go on as if
> you do, leaving me to wrongly assume it's okay to get more technical.
>
> This doesn't help either of us. I'm under the false impression you're
> following along, and I'm leaving you behind in reality. I don't want to
> do that. If I'm trying to teach you something and you don't understand
> something I wrote, please stop! and say so.
>
> I'm not trying to brag with my skills or when I try to teach; I just
> assume (wrongly of me) that it's okay to get more technical because I
> think you're on the same page, not still at the front of the book. [g]
>
>

There's no need to be rude, young man! ;-)

I understand how LoJack 'works'.

You have agreed that other ... appropriately crafted malware ... could
*also* survive the re-installation of Windows and continue in its wicked
ways.

Which is *exactly* what I had surmised.

For that I thank you, Dustin. :-)

[Dustin]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in
news:j4oj1i$m17$1@dont-email.me:

> Dustin wrote:
>> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in
>> news:j4o47f$2gq$2@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Dustin wrote:
>>>> M.L.<me@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:mmqu675d480ff9p46tefg6mrf9tfhpv3am@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What I suppose I really mean to ask is , if there is *no*
>>>>>>>>> BIOS persistence, surely by using FDISK or Partition Magic,
>>>>>>>>> the persistency can easily be removed, can't it? (even by
>>>>>>>>> someone like me!<vbg>)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmm, under normal usage of the tools; probably not. If you
>>>>>>>> get crazy and direct write zeros from start to last track;
>>>>>>>> then yes, she's history.
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't this discussion already rule out disabling LoJack via the
>>>>> hard drive?
>>>>
>>>> Depending on the conditions, yes and no. BD and some others?
>>>> obviously don't read what I write, or are too selective in
>>>> skimming it.
>>>
>>> BD reads your every word.
>>>
>>> I have misunderstood nothing.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is *you* who is skimming this time, Dustin! ;-)
>>
>> Nope. I answered the question you presented with my initial
>> discussion on what lojack was and wasn't. the fact you asked the
>> same question again after my lengthly (no, I didn't provide source
>> code, lol) explanation tells me you didn't understand what I wrote.
>>
>> So, while you might read every word I post; instead of stopping and
>> asking questions when you don't understand something, you go on as
>> if you do, leaving me to wrongly assume it's okay to get more
>> technical.
>>
>> This doesn't help either of us. I'm under the false impression
>> you're following along, and I'm leaving you behind in reality. I
>> don't want to do that. If I'm trying to teach you something and you
>> don't understand something I wrote, please stop! and say so.
>>
>> I'm not trying to brag with my skills or when I try to teach; I
>> just assume (wrongly of me) that it's okay to get more technical
>> because I think you're on the same page, not still at the front of
>> the book. [g]
>>
>>
>
> There's no need to be rude, young man! ;-)

I wasn't being rude.

> I understand how LoJack 'works'.

Ok.

> You have agreed that other ... appropriately crafted malware ...
> could *also* survive the re-installation of Windows and continue in
> its wicked ways.

Under specific condtions, I've never stated otherwise.

> Which is *exactly* what I had surmised.

Well, with some specifics left out, sure.

> For that I thank you, Dustin. :-)

You're welcome.




--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

[Betty]

~BD~ wrote:
> G. Morgan wrote:
>> ~BD~ wrote:
>>
>>>> Yes, if there *is* BIOS persistence. Without BIOS persistence it
>>>> is still possible to persist if the code in the partition gaps isn't
>>>> defeated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>
>> I'm sure he's happy you concur!
>>
>
> FTR has gone rather quiet of late.
>
> I hope all is well with him at home.

I hope so too. I was thinking about that today. I've noticed that he
hasn't said much lately.

[FromTheRafters]

"Betty" <howdy@all.y'all> wrote in message news:j4ons0$f10$1@dont-email.me...
> ~BD~ wrote:
>> G. Morgan wrote:
>>> ~BD~ wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, if there *is* BIOS persistence. Without BIOS persistence it
>>>>> is still possible to persist if the code in the partition gaps isn't
>>>>> defeated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I'm sure he's happy you concur!
>>>
>>
>> FTR has gone rather quiet of late.
>>
>> I hope all is well with him at home.
>
> I hope so too. I was thinking about that today. I've noticed that he hasn't
> said much lately.

I'm okay, mom's in a nursing home for the time being. The level of
care she needs right now is beyond our capability. They estimate
about a month and she'll be able to come back home.

As for LoJack, they claim that the software will *heal* the firmware
if it is flashed, and that the firmware will reinstate the software if it
is removed. They don't specifically state that removing *both* will
defeat the system although that looks to be the case.

[Dustin]

Betty <howdy@all.y'all> wrote in news:j4ons0$f10$1@dont-email.me:

> ~BD~ wrote:
>> G. Morgan wrote:
>>> ~BD~ wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Yes, if there *is* BIOS persistence. Without BIOS persistence it
>>>>> is still possible to persist if the code in the partition gaps
>>>>> isn't defeated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I'm sure he's happy you concur!
>>>
>>
>> FTR has gone rather quiet of late.
>>
>> I hope all is well with him at home.
>
> I hope so too. I was thinking about that today. I've noticed that he
> hasn't said much lately.
>

He's been busy? Probably doesn't want to bother with a pointless flame
war, when it's finished now anyway. He was thoughtful enough to
contribute his opinion of my skills on this subject when asked by
another and was dismissed all the same. I wouldn't bother continuing in
his case either.


--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.