Ping: Dustin Cook - How would *you* find this rootkit?

[Dustin]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
news:iuql68$5dt$1@dont-email.me:

> I have *never* questioned or challenged your expertise, Dustin.

Slimy ****ing liar. You do that all the time. When I hand you your ass
for the trouble, you try kissing mine...

> My comment was *not* intended to be a wiseass remark. It was a
> genuine acknowledgement of your depth of knowledge.

Sure it was...

> I do not, though, understand why you have chosen to fight with
> Graham Morgan. That is completely unnecessary, in my opinion.

Graham has decided for whatever reason to fight with me, David. It's my
understanding? that he believes I'm intentionally picking on Jenn. I
made a small effort to correct our paths so a collision could be
avoided, but he bit me for my trouble. I'm not blameless in this, mind
you, I've treated him poorly the past few days. I was thinking about
that and considered that I might have gone overboard, but his
intentional trolling of the crosspost **** (I've made it clear I don't
routinely check headers of everyone, just known ****wits, like you) so
he clearly took advantage as I didn't think he was a ****wit then. the
sociopath? (WTF?) comments, and the laughable ****ing threats that I
better not make him angry.

Graham's chosen a war when one wasn't necessary. Your opinion regarding
it is pointless. He doesn't give a ****, I'm sure. I don't either.


--
(Hey) I keep on thinking that it's
(Hey) all done and all over now (whoa)
You keep on thinking you can save me save me
(Hey) My ship is sinking but it's
(Hey) all good and I can go down (whoa)
You've got me thinking that the party's all over

[Dustin]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
news:iuqm7b$c7o$1@dont-email.me:

>> I have signed up on help forums. Sure, but no, not to have my
>> computers checked. Damnit BD, I'll be accused of bragging again for
>> that.
>
> You *do* have a sense of humor then?!! ;-)

Sure I do. A very dry one. Have you ever seen the original Dr Who?

> Kudos - for being *the* man that finds just how a group of bad guys
> operate!

Which bad guys, David? You've called me a criminal too.

>> If you provide a reasonable explanation David, I'll consider doing
>> what you want me to do. Seriously.
>
> Both you and I *know* that Foldes lies. *I* know that Robear Dyer
> lies too. Don't do anything just for me - do it to demonstrate that
> I'm *wrong* about my suspicion that all is not above board at Aumha.

I just gave you an opportunity to get me to do something for you, all
you had to provide was a reasonable explanation as to why you wanted
me to do it. You have failed to do the one thing I requested,
therefore, I will not help you.

>>> You have the ability to determine if all recommendations/advice
>>> given is 'sound'. Perhaps you could find the time to put those
>>> folk
>>
>> Your lapdog doesn't seem to think so. In fact, he thinks that
>> because I've chosen to pull wire and bend conduit (I really don't
>> bend much conduit these days, everything's PVC now, but anyway)
>> that I wouldn't possibly know anything. Perhaps you should ask him
>> to help instead?
>
> Few have the expertise necessary to check whether or not a machine
> really *is* clean when judged to be so by any 'helper' at Aumha - if
> *anyone* can do this, it is Dustin Cook!

Not just me. I know some others who lurk here who could too. (I
noticed your crossposting).

> If Graham Morgan can also /test/ my theory - perhaps you should work
> together? Good guys versus the bad guys, eh?!!

Morgan won't be much good to you, unless he paid attention to what I
taught him the other day and took good notes. As he confused my
instructions of loading the hive with barts registry editor as to be
dumping the hive, I won't hold my breath. I'll give him the benefit of
the doubt and say he didnt actually mean dumping the hive, but
examining it. I'll go further, he's right, it is time consuming.
However, it isn't the only way in which one can go looking. It's just
*the most reliable* method as the host OS isn't running at the time.

I'll go ahead and tell you now, I really believe that a self taught
individual has more to offer than some college kid who was taught what
the instructor had to share withen legal limits. College is nice, I
did two years of vocational technical school myself, but.. I don't
brag about that, nor do I claim my chronological age automatically
puts me ahead of the game, as it wouldn't.

It's what you do with the time you're here that puts you behind or
ahead. Morgan commented that if I was any good, people would be using
my **** and I wouldn't be pulling wires. Well, everytime you do an
update with malwarebytes, you are using some of my ****; you always
will be, you and millions of other people. [g].

I pull wire because I really enjoy the electrical field. Morgan should
lookup the hackers book and do some educational reading. It's not
uncommon for us to be interested in becoming an electrical engineer,
lineman, or outright electrician as well as a computer nut. In fact,
having electrical knowledge AND extensive computer knowledge (beyond
Morgans, sorry, but, he's not even a programmer and doesn't know the
difference between programmer and coder) guarantees me a ****ing job
anywhere I decide to go, in this country or another.

I don't sit on my ass all day, either. Electrical work is physical.

Doing the electrical work allows me to meet all kinds of people from
different walks of life. I've met many security guys, They're
generally fat lazy ****ers who won't even dig a trench, bury their own
PVC, or run the low voltage wires into the house. We do most of that
for them.

As far as the big deal thing they do, dude, listen, they install a box
usually stashed in the garage with some sensors wired to it. We
generally have to provide them main power AND setup the house for
them. I've only met one guy so far (one!) who actually does his own
damn work, although he still has us run the power for him, but he's a
nice guy and isn't cheeky so I'm happy to help him out.

They outsource the security monitoring, so it's not a super hard job
to do. It's a pain in the ass if your actually doing the work yourself
sometimes, but... I doubt Morgan does; or he wouldn't be talking ****
about pulling wires, as a security guy worth a **** does that too.

....

--
(Hey) I keep on thinking that it's
(Hey) all done and all over now (whoa)
You keep on thinking you can save me save me
(Hey) My ship is sinking but it's
(Hey) all good and I can go down (whoa)
You've got me thinking that the party's all over

[Dustin]

"Bullwinkle." <BDTJ@loa..mo> wrote in
news:4e10c74c$1@news.x-privat.org:

> Morgan, of bd sucking fame, said he does not
> understand how international companies can keep
> money off shore and not pay US taxes.

You're surprised? He claims a VB application that doesn't ship with
nor have the included dlls compiled into the main executable is a
stand alone or portable app.

> No wonder his business fails and he needs

I don't know.. It's not a good economy right now, and with the prices
of new computers.. Some people really do just throw them out when they
have a software issue. I can't really fault him if his business isn't
spectacular right now. it's hard to charge someone a couple hundred
dollars to replace a laptop HD and reload it when walmart would sell
them a mini for a hundred or so more. The clients usually don't
understand or care about the differences. Especially if they're just
doing facebook and emailing the grandkids.

Not much money in the techie field these days man.

--
(Hey) I keep on thinking that it's
(Hey) all done and all over now (whoa)
You keep on thinking you can save me save me
(Hey) My ship is sinking but it's
(Hey) all good and I can go down (whoa)
You've got me thinking that the party's all over

[~BD~]

FromTheRafters wrote:
> "~BD~"<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in message
> news:iuq5op$1f9$1@dont-email.me...
> [...]
>> I have no knowledge of the duties of 'Network administrators'. Will they be
>> using tools such as Malwarebytes and/or SuperAntispyware?
>
> Probably not.

Accepted!

>> Will they use the 'services' of an organisation such as Aumha.net -
>> downloading all manner of 'unknown' cleaning 'tools' until the helper/adviser
>> deems their network 'clean'? Somehow I doubt that!
>
> Probably not, and why should they - they're not looking for malware.

I do not understand.

"A network administrator is a person responsible for the maintenance of
computer hardware and software that comprises a computer network. This
normally includes deploying, configuring, maintaining and monitoring
active network equipment."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_administrator

If they do not *look* for malware, how will they ever uncover it?

Dave

[~BD~]

Dustin wrote:
> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
> news:iuql68$5dt$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> I have *never* questioned or challenged your expertise, Dustin.
>
> Slimy ****ing liar. You do that all the time. When I hand you your ass
> for the trouble, you try kissing mine...

Wrong. I tell the truth. You choose to disbelieve me.

>> My comment was *not* intended to be a wiseass remark. It was a
>> genuine acknowledgement of your depth of knowledge.
>
> Sure it was...

No. It was not.

>> I do not, though, understand why you have chosen to fight with
>> Graham Morgan. That is completely unnecessary, in my opinion.
>
> Graham has decided for whatever reason to fight with me, David. It's my
> understanding? that he believes I'm intentionally picking on Jenn. I
> made a small effort to correct our paths so a collision could be
> avoided, but he bit me for my trouble. I'm not blameless in this, mind
> you, I've treated him poorly the past few days. I was thinking about
> that and considered that I might have gone overboard, but his
> intentional trolling of the crosspost **** (I've made it clear I don't
> routinely check headers of everyone, just known ****wits, like you) so
> he clearly took advantage as I didn't think he was a ****wit then. the
> sociopath? (WTF?) comments, and the laughable ****ing threats that I
> better not make him angry.
>
> Graham's chosen a war when one wasn't necessary. Your opinion regarding
> it is pointless. He doesn't give a ****, I'm sure. I don't either.

Why make a rod for your own back? Wipe the slate clean and start over is
my recommendation.

Dave

[Dave U. Random]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <Xns9F15B47ED180DHHI2948AJD832@no>
Dustin <bughunter.dustin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
The stalker/psycho/woman hating/virus writer/virus passer &
limpdicked faggot known as RAID/DUSTIN COOK/G.MORGAN is BACK.

Now he and his butt-bumping faggot buddys, like "fromtherafters" are
trying to destroy 24hoursupport.helpdesk using pseudonyms (nicks).

I guess everyone here needs a little updating on the faggot-woman
hating-virus writer/passer RAID.

I'm a bit busy right now, but here's some for starters.

=========================
Subject: The Ultimate Arrogance & Meaness Of A Virus Writer/Passer


Nowhere is the temperment of this sociopath shown more clearly
than here. He is utterly without conscience or empathy. Below,
since his Web page of viruses for download is temporarily down,
He offers to email viruses to anyone who asks for them.

- ------------
The evil one spake below:

"Offering them (viruses)on a www page is not irresponsible, he
says in one of the posts below."

"That's not my problem nor concern....what the people who
download them decides to do with them is there business."

"...identify yourself as one who wants the (virus) zip files,
and I will be happy to send them."

"It's like being a little god, who see his creatures spreading
all over the world."

"Those of you who think my viruses suck, Oh well. I really don't
care that you think. Those of you who think i'm an a**hole,
Good. I don't care who or how many scum sucking lamers i infect.
I'm doing the world a favor removing dipsh*ts like that."
- - ------------

It's all below. No attribution errors. No Lies. No taking out of
context. No "character assassination". (That isn't needed. His own
words accomplish that beyond what I could think up.)

It is amazing how many educated and smart people try arguing
with this looney tunes sociopath. He has an extreme case of
diarrhea of the mouth. An endless stream of illogical,
nonsensical **** spews from him, illustrating his sick dementia.
It seems beyond the ken of ordinary sane persons to realize the
evil inside this person which twists every truth 180 degrees
from its true polarity. No wonder he snickers and sneers at
them. They are incredibly naive.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.c...ead/thread/d42
fc252bdec427f/d70c73413bdbc007?hl=en&q=group:*.*+author:martin+a uthor:
overton#d70c73413bdbc007

or

http://preview.************/2ajsneo

RAiD [SLAM]
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/13
Subject: ChekMate author: Question?
Hello.
By now, I'm sure you have located the virus samples, Well, does
your checker pick them up?

Windows 95- Where do you wanna crash today?
Oh spam bots... heres some email addys:bri...@dlois.com
Enjoy pesky spambots...

=============================

Discussion subject changed to "ChekMate detects Krile virus
samples ( 1-1e) (was ChekMate author: Question?)" by Martin
Overton

Martin Overton
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton)
Date: 1998/01/16
Subject: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was ChekMate
author: Question?)

On Tue, 13 Jan 98 17:58:21 GMT, j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM]) wrote:
>Hello.

>By now, I'm sure you have located the virus samples, Well, does
>your checker pick them up?

I'm sure you don't want me to post my FULL results of testing your
viruses here and on my website?

So, I'll make this easy for you to understand.

1. YES!

2. All of them.

Martin Overton - Author of ChekMate - ChekW...@Cavalry.com
Detects Known & UNKNOWN Viruses for DOS,OS/2 & Win 3.x,95,NT.
Web site http://chekware.simplenet.com/cmindex.htm
*** I also keep Tarantulas & Snakes! ***

============================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
More options Jan 16 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/16
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <34bfbecb.8705...@news.demon.co.uk>,
ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton) wrote:

>I'm sure you don't want me to post my FULL results of testing
>your viruses here and on my website?

Actually, as I've stated before, I do. So, post the results of
your testing here and on your www page. I will use the
information to further improve the krile family. I have an idea
as to how krile may have been nabbed, and thats only because
krile once it infected md5.exe would return to infect your
checker again. However, rest assured, this has been corrected.

Now, again, please post your results.

>So, I'll make this easy for you to understand.

By all means. However, a simple YES doesn't tell me the details,
of which I have asked you three times now to provide. So,
provide them.

Windows 95- Where do you wanna crash today?
Oh spam bots... heres some email addys:bri...@dlois.com
Enjoy pesky spambots...

====================================

David Harley
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: har...@europa.lif.icnet.uk (David Harley)
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

RAiD [SLAM] (j...@raid.x) wrote:

: In article <34bfbecb.8705...@news.demon.co.uk>,
: ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton) wrote:

: >I'm sure you don't want me to post my FULL results of
: >testing your viruses here and on my website?

:Actually, as I've stated before, I do. So, post the results of
:your testing here and on your www page. I will use the
:information to further improve the krile family. I have an idea
: as to how krile may have been nabbed, and thats only because
:krile once it infected md5.exe would return to infect your
:checker again. However, rest assured, this has been corrected.

You mean -your- test didn't demonstrate this? That would seem
to indicate that your test was as useless as we suspected.
That's what matters: no-one is interested in helping you with
your quality control......
- - --
David Harley \ | /
alt.comp.virus FAQ
D.Har...@icrf.icnet.uk \ | / & Anti-Virus
Web Page
Support & Security Analyst \ | / Folk London On-Line
gig-list
Imperial Cancer Research Fund ____\|/____
http://webworlds.co.uk/dharley/

========================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69p5ap$...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>,
r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick Joseph) wrote:

>Martin is restricted by his personal and political motivations.
>He's here representing his own anti-virus product, and is doing
>a great job of being polite to everyone.

Did I say he wasn't?

>Since I don't have any of those sort of restrictions, I'll have
>to ask why anyone would want to present information that might
>help you "further improve" your silly virus? Do you think
>you're developing some sort of perfect, undetectable,
>reproductive malignancy? You've expended a lot of energy trying
>to get people to react to your krile ****, if you were any
>good at programming you'd write something worthwhile instead of
>wasting your time convincing yourself and trying to convince us
>that you're some sort of evil genius. Grow up.

Rick. I'm not trying nor interested in convincing anyone of
anything, I'm certainly not a Jehovas Witness. <G> As for being
an evil genius, Nah.. I don't see it that way. I choose to write
viruses, and I will continue to write them. If you don't like
this, There isn't really too much you can do about it.

As for growing up, I have been relatively friendly throughout
this newsgroup, Why start with personal statements now?

Windows 95- Where do you wanna crash today?
Oh spam bots... heres some email addys:bri...@dlois.com
Enjoy pesky spambots...

======================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69psur$2n...@charlie.lif.icnet.uk>,
har...@europa.lif.icnet.uk (David Harley) wrote:

>You mean -your- test didn't demonstrate this? That would seem
>to indicate that your test was as useless as we suspected.
>That's what matters: no-one is interested in helping you with
>your quality control......

My test? When did I conduct any test? as for helping me, it's
not really a persons option. Once they become infected, they are
beta-testing, whether they wanted too or not. That's how it
works.

I'm not doren, so I'm not interested in promoting a shareware
virus to test the installation of antivirus programs.

I'd much rather develop viruses which don't alarm the user to
there presence at first.

Windows 95- Where do you wanna crash today?
Oh spam bots... heres some email addys:bri...@dlois.com
Enjoy pesky spambots...

===========================================

Martin Overton
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton)
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

On Fri, 16 Jan 98 22:47:47 GMT, j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM]) wrote:
>Actually, as I've stated before, I do.

I have not seen a reply to my last posting in the "Re: Help! My
computer is infected with KRiLE v1.0e thread" On Thu, 15 Jan
1998 08:50:36 GMT, I posted:

"I'll let you decide if you want my test report posted here
publicly. Let me know ;-)"

Until now you had not responded, and you still haven't to that
thread.

>So, post the results of your testing here and on your www page.
>I will use the information to further improve the krile family.
>I have an idea as to how krile may have been nabbed, and thats
>only because krile once it infected md5.exe would return to
>infect your checker again. However, rest assured, this has been
>corrected.

On reflection: in that case as it would help you with your virus
writing, I withdraw my offer to post the results.

As I stated before I find it morally unacceptable to support
virus writers, or in any way help them to make the virus problem
worse than it is.

I now see that me posting a detailed review of your viruses
would be beneficial to you and help you write new viruses, so I
withdraw my offer.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer not to help someone break
the law.

>Now, again, please post your results.

Sorry won't do as this would help you to write viruses.

>>So, I'll make this easy for you to understand.

>By all means. However, a simple YES doesn't tell me the
>details, of which I have asked you three times now to provide.
>So, provide them.

Three times? OK, I'll reply three times, NO, NO and thrice NO.

I think it is sufficient to say that my product detects the
changes made to files by your viruses. I won't help you any
further.

Maybe you should take the advice of your virus writing peers and
stop writing viruses?

Martin Overton - Author of ChekMate - ChekW...@Cavalry.com
Detects Known & UNKNOWN Viruses for DOS,OS/2 & Win 3.x,95,NT.
Web site http://chekware.simplenet.com/cmindex.htm
*** I also keep Tarantulas & Snakes! ***

==========================================

Martin Overton
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton)
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

Hi Rick,

On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:33:54 GMT, r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick

Joseph) wrote:
>In article <69oo7v$je...@news.usit.net>,
>j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM]) wrote:

>>So, post the results of your testing here and on your www
>>page. I will use the information to further improve the krile
>>family. I have an idea as to

>Martin is restricted by his personal and political motivations.
> He's here representing his own anti-virus product, and is
>doing a great job of being polite to everyone.

There's nothing political about my motivations, they are purely
personal, nothing more, nothing less.

I try to treat people in the way I expect to be treated. As you
know I try to help people here, I'm not really cut out for
marketing as I can't bend the truth convincingly. ;-)

I have to really believe in a product, have documented
(independant) proof that it does what it says, or most often, I
take it and test it to death. Maybe that's why I do so much beta
testing, av, other software and hardware. I also have a nasty
habit of finding bugs in products, aome manufacturers like this
as I can help them improve their products, others take it as a
personal attack (which it's not).

>Since I don't have any of those sort of restrictions, I'll have
>to ask why anyone would want to present information that might
>help you "further improve" your silly virus?

That's why I have now withdrawn my offer, as I don't and won't
help virus writers to improve their creations. Again, this is
not politics, I personally feel that writing viruses is stupid
and childish, it's a shame that they don't channel their
'talents' into more useful outlets.

>Do you think you're developing some sort of perfect,
>undetectable, reproductive malignancy? You've expended a lot of
>energy trying to get people to react to your krile ****, if
>you were any good at programming you'd write something
>worthwhile instead of wasting your time convincing yourself and
>trying to convince us that you're some sort of evil genius.
>Grow up.

I think that's exactly what he thinks he is doing. The samples I
saw posed no challenges for ChekMate, or indeed most generic
systems that monitor file modifications (and that cry wolf when
the fingerprint or CRC database files are deleted). No
'patching' was required, no 'hand-holding' was needed for the
modifications that the viruses made to be detected. Hell, it
doesn't even have directory stealth or is even memory resident!

Thanks for your support, or am I taking things for granted? ;-)

Martin Overton - Author of ChekMate - ChekW...@Cavalry.com
Detects Known & UNKNOWN Viruses for DOS,OS/2 & Win 3.x,95,NT.
Web site http://chekware.simplenet.com/cmindex.htm
*** I also keep Tarantulas & Snakes! ***

=========================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
More options Jan 17 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <34c06a88.14410...@news.demon.co.uk>,
ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton) wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Jan 98 22:47:47 GMT, j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM]) wrote:
>"I'll let you decide if you want my test report posted here
>publicly. Let me know ;-)"

and I have since posted 3 responses. This will be #4.

>Until now you had not responded, and you still haven't to that
>thread.

What would you like me to tell that person?

>On reflection: in that case as it would help you with your
>virus writing, I withdraw my offer to post the results.

Pity. You were so gung hoe about it before. What changed your mind?


>As I stated before I find it morally unacceptable to support virus
>writers, or in any way help them to make the virus problem worse
>than it is.

The problem as you put it, is not as bad as people like yourself
make it out to be. You seem to be forgetting something. If
people like my self didn't code these things, there would be no
market for your program nor anyone elses relating to virus
discovery. Are you sure AV people want to not make money? those
www servers aren't cheap, nor are there support staff.

>I now see that me posting a detailed review of your viruses would be
>beneficial to you and help you write new viruses, so I withdraw my
>offer.

I will write new viruses anyway. and I'll happily spend more time
with your
program. So that even if your not willing to provide details, I'll
have
them eventually.

>Call me old fashioned, but I prefer not to help someone break the
>law.

Where I reside, it's not illegal for me to write them.

>Sorry won't do as this would help you to write viruses.

again, I'm going to continue writing anyway. This stance of
yours doesn't help anyone avoid them.

>I think it is sufficient to say that my product detects the
>changes made to files by your viruses. I won't help you any
>further.

Yes, I'm sure it does. Your product shells to a 3rd party
utility for verification. Your programs internal check method
however will not report modification, since your file is
restored to it's original condition before it gets control.

>Maybe you should take the advice of your virus writing peers
>and stop writing viruses?

My virus writing peers? They encourage viruses, They don't
suggest quit writing. and if all virus writers did stop writing,
You wouldn't have a business. Nor would most AV
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid

======================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
More options Jan 17 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <34c0fa2d.1693...@news.demon.co.uk>,
ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton) wrote:

>I think that's exactly what he thinks he is doing. The samples
>I saw posed no challenges for ChekMate, or indeed most generic
>systems that monitor file modifications (and that cry wolf when
>the fingerprint or CRC database files are deleted). No
>'patching' was required, no 'hand-holding' was needed for the
>modifications that the viruses made to be detected. Hell, it
>doesn't even have directory stealth or is even memory resident!

Are you claiming your programs self check is better then DSAV,
fprot, AVP? And no, its not memory resident. nor does it employ
directory stealth, of course, this is all explained in the
documentation file which comes with the binary. The only reason
KRiLE didn't get past your self check is because you choose to
shell to another application, which krile then immediatly
infects your file. However, I've noticed you didn't bother to
mention your program doesn't see any changes to itself before it
shells to md5.exe.
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid

=======================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
More options Jan 17 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/17
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69r1mr$...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick Joseph) wrote:

>OK, I'll give you that. Answer a question, then? Why spend time
>and energy writing a virus?

They are a hobby of mine. I've always been fascinated with self
replicating code. Not destructive code mind you, Just code which
replicates on it's own, and still allows it's host to function.
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid

=======================================.

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69r7gr$...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick Joseph) wrote:

>Hopefully you'll grow out of it. Do you consider releasing your
>viruses to the public at all irresponsible?

Define releasing. Offering them on a www page is not
irresponsible. The zip files contain a documentation file, and
several other identifiers, no effort is made to decieve the
user.
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid

============================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69riq6$...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
B020961052659101084010...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

>he has a point. Where is the page? Does any of the other AV
>programs detect Krile family yet?

AVP detects and cleans krile varient 1c (I've tested this for
myself) I am unsure whether or not it detects any of the rest,
at the time, it didn't. As for DSAV, I heard they are coming out
with a driver (likely to be detection only) for krile 1e (v1)
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid

==========================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69rl02$jb...@news.usit.net>, j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
wrote:

>AVP detects and cleans krile varient 1c (I've tested this for
>myself) I am unsure whether or not it detects any of the rest,
>at the time, it didn't. As for DSAV, I heard they are coming
>out with a driver (likely to be detection only) for krile 1e
>(v1)

I forgot to answer your second question. The page is offline,
due to server upgrading. However, if you don't feel like waiting
that long for them. You do have the option of going on IRC
(undernet) and joining #virus. Simply identify yourself as one
who wants the zip files, and I will be happy to send them.

rockhill.sc.us.undernet.org ports: 6660-6669
newbrunswick.nj.us.undernet.org ports: 6660-6669

Email requests will not be answered.
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid]

==========================================

Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: LDH...@concentric.net (L DeHaan)
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:52:52 -0500, Spanska

<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

>You're right. Coding some self-replicative program is a
>metaphysical experiment. It's like being a little god, who see
>his creatures spreading all over the world.
>
>We don't want to destruct anything. Just want to see our
>creations live their own life outside the laboratory (our own
>computer). Can't you understand it's fascinating, you all?

"We don't want to destruct anything."(!)

Once you release your darling little creatures into the world,
they cause damage in many ways.

They hang computers, damage files, and at the very least tie up
system resources.

They force corporations to spend substantial sums of money for
anti-virus software and additional staffing to prevent virus
attacks on their computer systems, and even more in terms of
lost productivity and virus cleanup should their efforts fail.

And they force John Q Public to spend money on AV software -
money which could better be used for some other purpose.

If you were so concerned about not "destructing" anything, you
wouldn't have released the viruses into the wild in the first
place. Your attitude is very selfish - you revel in being little
"gods" watching your creatures proliferate without any concern
for the consequences to others.

May God have mercy on your souls.

LDH

=======================================

Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69rsnn$...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick Joseph) wrote:

>If you let anyone other than a reputable AV company get ahold
>of your virus, or if you infect any machine other than your own
>(directly or indirectly), you've released it.

Now why would I want to deliberatly send them to AV? They can
get them from infected users, or users who wish to send them
samples, They certainly don't need my help.

>Define "user."

One who visits my page for whatever reason.


______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid]

===================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <34c15d9a.23688...@nntp.concentric.net>,
LDH...@concentric.net (L DeHaan) wrote:

>Once you release your darling little creatures into the world,
>they cause damage in many ways.

That's not my problem nor concern. I merely offer them on a www
page, what the people who download them decides to do with them
is there business.

>And they force John Q Public to spend money on AV software -
>money which could better be used for some other purpose.

again, not my concern.

>If you were so concerned about not "destructing" anything, you
>wouldn't have released the viruses into the wild in the first
>place. Your attitude is very selfish - you revel in being
>little "gods" watching your creatures proliferate without any
>concern for the consequences to others.

My attitude isn't selfish.

>May God have mercy on your souls.

Perhaps if he actually existed that statement might have some
meaning. But, let's not turn this into a religious discussion
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid]

========================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
More options Jan 18 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <69s47h$...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick Joseph) wrote:

>So you are irresponsible, antisocial, and have little or no
>regard for other's property - just like most other virus
>writers.

Ahh, here we go again with the character assinations..
Shrug.
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid]

===========================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <34c1a3e3.1070...@nntp.a001.sprintmail.com>,
larrydeh...@sprintmail.com (Larry DeHaan) wrote:

>I don't suppose Spanska could answer for himself. Perhaps you
>are now his official spokesperson.

Spanska is quiet able to answer for him self. I chose to respond
to your comments. This is UseNet after all.

>Nevertheless, "I find your lack of concern disturbing". The
>fact that you "merely" offer viruses on a web page doesn't
>absolve you of all responsibility. You created the virus, you
>put it on your web page for any Tom, Dick or Harry to download,
>knowing full well the problems it could cause when released
>into the wild. That being true, you are an agent and
>contributing factor to the damage it causes.

What other people choose to do with those viruses is there
business, Not mine. I'm only offering them for people who are
interested in such things (like myself).
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid]

========================================

RAiD [SLAM]
View profile
More options Jan 18 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM])
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

In article <MPG.f2ac8ca6d3e82e2989...@news.srv.ualberta.ca> ,
gwen...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (George Wenzel) wrote:

>Hogwash. If every virus writer on the planet stopped writing
>viruses this second, and no viruses were written in the future,
>there would still be a market for anti-virus software.
>Justifying your virus writing by claiming your efforts make a
>market for anti-virus programs simply doesn't make sense.

George, I made no attempt to justify anything. The market would
dry up without a need for it. I and many others provide that
market's need, Not on purpose, it just happens that way. We code
the creatures, and others make money removing them.
assbackwards, but that's how it works.

>Would you go out into the ocean, spill as much oil there as you
>could, with the benevolent purpose of making a market for 3M
>and their "oil- sucking foam"?

Since I'm not interested in making this planets ecosystem
anyworse then it already is, No.

>Sure, AV people want to make money, that's why they're in the
>business. They won't make more money if there are more virus
>writers, though. Nor will they make less money if you stop
>writing viruses.

George, If we all stopped. There would be no new viruses to add
to the market. the available viruses would die off with nothing
to replace them. In that case, ones the market dries up, there
would be no further profit for Antiviral software. Who needs it
if viruses cease to exist?

>Why don't you supply technical support to those that get
>infected with your viruses? There have already been people in
>this newsgroup complaining. They don't care what your purpose
>was for writing the virus - they just want the thing off of
>their systems.

That's not my job George. I'm not an Antivirus person. I do not
get paid for "technical support" Antivirus people do, Let them
deal with it.

>Writing viruses isn't the problem. I don't think that anybody
>would have a problem with you writing all the viruses you like.
>Problems result when you SPREAD those viruses. And yes, it is
>quite likely that infecting systems with viruses is illegal in
>your area. Infecting a system with a virus usually falls under
>"unauthorized modification" or "electronic trespass" laws.

George, I'm not violating ANY laws by offering them on a www
page or an anon ftp server. I make no attempt to hide the fact
that what the user is downloading is a virus, and is potentially
harmful.

>See above. You're making a false assumption here. Most
>anti-virus products have trouble just trying to detect all the
>known viruses, let alone the new ones. If you and all your
>virus-writing peers stopped writing viruses right now, there
>would still be a market for AV products.

See my reply above George. It wouldn't take years. Don't you
have any faith in the AV products and people?
______________________________
KRiLE "Are we having fun yet?"
______________________________
[Email? j...@x.raid]

==========================================

Bruce P. Burrell
View profile
More options Jan 18 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: Bruce P. Burrell <b...@ren.us.itd.umich.edu>
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

RAiD [SLAM] <j...@raid.x> wrote:
> In article <69r7gr$...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
> r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick Joseph) wrote:

>>Hopefully you'll grow out of it. Do you consider releasing
>>your viruses to the public at all irresponsible? Define
>>releasing. Offering them on a www page is not irresponsible.

Sure it is.

>The zip files contain a documentation file, and several other
>identifiers, no effort is made to decieve the user.

How do you guarantee that the docs and identifiers are included
when passed on to another by someone who obtained it from you?

How do you prevent someone from getting it and using it
maliciously?

The point is that with viruses, once they've escaped, they're
"out there" and there is no way to guarantee that all copies are
destroyed. Hence it's fine to write a virus and keep it
quarantined on your machine, but not to allow ANYONE else to
have it, since they might not maintain the quarantine.


But then again, of course you knew that already.

-BPB

==========================================

Martin Overton
View profile
More options Jan 18 1998, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton)
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:58:59 GMT, r_jos...@ix.netcom.comX (Rick

Joseph) wrote:
>As a representative of CheckMate, you have to be somewhat of a
>diplomat when you post publically. That's all I meant.

I know you didn't mean anything sinister or nefarious. I post
and behave the same as I do in any other groups, even on the
alt.pets.arachnid usenet group which has nothing to do with
computers or viruses.

As ChekWARE is my company, I set the standards I work to ;-)

>>>Since I don't have any of those sort of restrictions, I'll
>>>have to ask why anyone would want to present information that
>>>might help you "further improve" your silly virus?

>>That's why I have now withdrawn my offer, as I don't and won't
>>help virus writers to improve their creations. Again, this is
>>not politics,

>I think that's a good decision.

Thanks.

Martin Overton - Author of ChekMate - ChekW...@Cavalry.com
Detects Known & UNKNOWN Viruses for DOS,OS/2 & Win 3.x,95,NT.
Web site http://chekware.simplenet.com/cmindex.htm
*** I also keep Tarantulas & Snakes! ***

===============================================

Martin Overton
Newsgroups: alt.comp.virus
From: ChekW...@Cavalry.com (Martin Overton)
Date: 1998/01/18
Subject: Re: ChekMate detects Krile virus samples ( 1-1e) (was
ChekMate author: Question?)

On Sat, 17 Jan 98 20:06:39 GMT, j...@raid.x (RAiD [SLAM]) wrote:

>and I have since posted 3 responses. This will be #4.

The answer is still NO.

>What would you like me to tell that person?

As I was the last person to respond to that thread, then that
person is moi!

>>On reflection: in that case as it would help you with your
>>virus writing, I withdraw my offer to post the results.

>Pity. You were so gung hoe about it before. What changed your
>mind?

Realising that you just seem to want someone to justify your
purpose for writing viruses, and to point out the obvious errors
in your viruses.

>>As I stated before I find it morally unacceptable to support
>>virus writers, or in any way help them to make the virus
>>problem worse than it is.

>The problem as you put it, is not as bad as people like
>yourself make it out to be. You seem to be forgetting
>something. If people like my self didn't code these things,
>there would be no market for your program nor anyone elses
>relating to virus discovery. Are you sure AV people want to not
>make money? those www servers aren't cheap, nor are there
>support staff.

The problem is bad enough, and you and your ilk don't help. Why
don't you do something constructive instead?

As has been stated here many, many times, if viruses didn't
exist, we'd all be happier and doing something more exciting
with our time, rather than dissecting the 10,000th virus that
looks very similar to the other 9,999 of it's class.

If you didn't notice I write other software than just
anti-virus.

I can't and won't speak for all the other AV people, but I'm not
in it for the money. Does that surprise you?

The registration fee I get for ChekMate and my other programs
goes straight back into development and improving services to my
customers.

I've got plenty of other ideas for programs to write that have
nothing to do with AV. So personally I would be very happy if
the virus problem disappeared, my wife might actually see me
more often ;-)

The cost of my web server is peanuts, I rent space I need from a
service provider. I also use the space for my other hobbies -
keeping tarantulas and snakes (amongst the more conventional
pets). I help people with those too. You can find my other
non-av pages at http://chekware.simplenet.com/burrow

>>I now see that me posting a detailed review of your viruses
>>would be beneficial to you and help you write new viruses, so
>>I withdraw my offer.

>I will write new viruses anyway. and I'll happily spend more
>time with your program. So that even if your not willing to
>provide details, I'll have them eventually.

Fine, you'll do what you want and one day you'll realise that it
wasn't such a good idea to write viruses. Anyway, if you don't
care what others think why not use your real name and not hide
behind your 'handle' when you post, scared that the law may
knock on your door?

>>Call me old fashioned, but I prefer not to help someone break
>>the law.

>Where I reside, it's not illegal for me to write them.

So you are in the States, I'm surprised that you didn't quote
the relevant ammendment to justify your actions. Wherever you
are it IS illegal to infect another persons computer without
their consent.

>>Sorry won't do as this would help you to write viruses.

>again, I'm going to continue writing anyway. This stance of
>yours doesn't help anyone avoid them.

But I'll sleep at night with a clear conscience, how about you?

>>I think it is sufficient to say that my product detects the
>>changes made to files by your viruses. I won't help you any
>>further.

>Yes, I'm sure it does. Your product shells to a 3rd party
>utility for verification. Your programs internal check method
>however will not report modification, since your file is
>restored to it's original condition before it gets control.

I beg to differ. I'm not starting this all over again, enough is
enough. I'm not prepared to waste more of my time on this
so-called 'debate'.

If you want to continue this debate, let's take it over to
e-mail. I'm sure the rest of the readers here are as fed up as I
am with repeating themselves.

>>Maybe you should take the advice of your virus writing peers
>>and stop writing viruses?

>My virus writing peers? They encourage viruses, They don't
>suggest quit writing. and if all virus writers did stop
>writing, You wouldn't have a business. Nor would most AV

Is that why you're so polite about them in your NFO files that
you include with the viruses? I quote:

"To all VX related:
Those of you who think my viruses suck, Oh well. I really don't
care that you think. Those of you who think i'm an a**hole,
Good. I don't care who or how many scum sucking lamers i infect.
I'm doing the world a favor removing dipsh*ts like that."

I've replaced a few characters with *, I'm sure that you get the
gist.

<Ad snipped>

Martin Overton - Author of ChekMate - ChekW...@Cavalry.com
Detects Known & UNKNOWN Viruses for DOS,OS/2 & Win 3.x,95,NT.
Web site http://chekware.simplenet.com/cmindex.htm
*** I also keep Tarantulas & Snakes! ***

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[Bullwinkle.]

Can you prove you lackey morgan is a good guy?

Just because he sucks up to you
and repeats your lines, does not make
him a good guy.

Just the opposite.


"~BD~" <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in message
news:iuqm7b$c7o$1@dont-email.me...

If Graham Morgan can also /test/ my theory - perhaps you should work
together? Good guys versus the bad guys, eh?!!

[Dustin]

G. Morgan <G_Morgan@easy.com> wrote in
news7n317p3n7tv0mk3i0qfevegnnp894dv9b@Osama-is-dead.net:

> Dustin wrote:
>
>>. I was thinking about
>>that and considered that I might have gone overboard, but his
>>intentional trolling of the crosspost **** (I've made it clear I
>>don't routinely check headers of everyone, just known ****wits, like
>>you) so he clearly took advantage as I didn't think he was a ****wit
>>then. the sociopath? (WTF?) comments, and the laughable ****ing
>>threats that I better not make him angry.
>
>
> Okay, but let's let the group see your replies and see the crap that
> egged me on...

Egged you on? Dude, the group hasn't been absent or anything. They've
been keeping their noses out of it. You shouldn't start **** with people
you haven't got a chance in hell of finishing.




--
(Hey) I keep on thinking that it's
(Hey) all done and all over now (whoa)
You keep on thinking you can save me save me
(Hey) My ship is sinking but it's
(Hey) all good and I can go down (whoa)
You've got me thinking that the party's all over

[G. Morgan]

Dustin wrote:

>Ask Morgan. Perhaps he can enlighten you. He like you, has to use other
>peoples tools because, like you, he's unable to write his own.

You don't write your own anti-Malware, you use MBAM.

Besides, I want something that WORKS. Not some kludged together crap
that isn't maintained. Why don't you release the source of Bughunter,
since it's abandonware anyway. Let's have a look, or is it too sloppy
code for your buddies to see?

[Dustin]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
news:iurmue$k51$1@dont-email.me:

> You steal music (illegal) but I'm interested if those who steal
> *money*!

Being as the original cds are still very much in the possesion of the
owners I borrowed them from, how and on what possible planet could you
get the idea I stole them? The owners *still* have them.

If you're interested in those who steal money, checkout the RIAA
sometime. Real bad guys!

> Some might well describe that as a 'word wall' - but I found it an
> interesting read! Thanks.

word walls are nothingness intended to distract from the original point.
My explanation is there for anyone to review and examine for themselves.


--
(Hey) I keep on thinking that it's
(Hey) all done and all over now (whoa)
You keep on thinking you can save me save me
(Hey) My ship is sinking but it's
(Hey) all good and I can go down (whoa)
You've got me thinking that the party's all over