Re: Download registry cleaners

[~BD~]

On 20/03/2011 17:43, thanatoid wrote:
> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
> news:guWdnab50NcpZhjQnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d@bt.com:
>
>> I'd *still* like to know if anyone has any experience as to
>> the effectiveness of PC MightyMax
>> http://www.pcmightymax.net/
>
> I have not used /this/ product but have used several similar
> ones.
>
> The testimonials are pretty amazing, and the screenshots look
> OK. At this price, it better be DAMN good. If you can afford it,
> it appears simple enough and thorough enough to perhaps be worth
> it. IMO, their "leaseware" policy is innovative and reasonable.
> Check the "free test" and "unlock key" sections.

Do you have the expertise to run the facility on a known 'good' machine
to test if PCMightyMax is actually telling the truth or whether it will
find problems where none actually exist?

> But for $30 /forever/ instead of $120 every year, the Regclean
> Pro from:
>
> http://www.systweak.com/
>
> is a MUCH better deal. I have used an old version of this one
> for /years/, and it is excellent.

Thank you for the tip!

> I /will/ add that about half of the "problems" these programs
> fix are not really /problems/. OTOH, the other half CAN be,
> sometimes very serious.

I'm no guru, that's for sure, but my conception is that if malware
becomes resident on a Windows machine it will *always* add and/or change
Registry entries. If they are not 'put right' surely such malware could
remain active?

That's why I'm a little sceptical of the advice recommended by folk in
the Aumha thread! http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099

Dave

PS alt.privacy.spyware added to gain a wider spread of views

[Peter Foldes]

"~BD~" <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in message
news:T8Cdnds2Ip5B0BvQnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com...
> On 20/03/2011 17:43, thanatoid wrote:
>> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
>> news:guWdnab50NcpZhjQnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d@bt.com:

> I'm no guru, that's for sure, but my conception is that if malware becomes
> resident on a Windows machine it will *always* add and/or change Registry entries.
> If they are not 'put right' surely such malware could remain active?
>
> That's why I'm a little sceptical of the advice recommended by folk in the Aumha
> thread! http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099
>
> Dave
>
> PS alt.privacy.spyware added to gain a wider spread of views


You are a real gem. Why do you need to crosspost this to so many newsgroups. I also
included the Aumha view on account that it is accurate. You David are one bad
nutcase and your understanding of how and why the Registry and the hives within
exist and how it works is far above your understanding .

But just in case read the following.

Why would you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry?
What specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some
program's bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be
fixed by using a registry "cleaner?"

If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would
be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the
specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After
all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally,
the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely
to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make
multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean
your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change.

Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using
automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to
maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner,
no matter how safe they claim to be.

More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an
automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's
certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use
of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's
performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not
worth the risk.

Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and
every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there.
And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
non-existent benefits.

I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands
of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a
useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make
any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any
registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use.
Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe
in the hands of the inexperienced user.

A little further reading on the subject:

Why I don't use registry cleaners
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643

AumHa Forums . View topic - AUMHA Discussion: Should I Use a Registry
Cleaner?
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099



--
Peter
Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

[~BD~]

On 20/03/2011 19:18, Peter Foldes wrote:

> Why do you need to crosspost this to so many newsgroups.

Three groups is not "so many"

It is not your business to alter what I choose to do. Reinstated.

> Your understanding of how and why the Registry and the hives within exist and how it works is far above your understanding.

It is exactly *why* I ask for comments in the groups.

Why didn't you simply answer the question?

"Do you have the expertise to run the facility on a known 'good' machine
to test if PCMightyMax is actually telling the truth or whether it will
find problems where none actually exist?"

Otherwise, there was absolutely no need for you to become involved.

Unless you have some other agenda. Have you?

[thanatoid]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
news:T8Cdnds2Ip5B0BvQnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com:

> Do you have the expertise to run the facility on a known
> 'good' machine to test if PCMightyMax is actually telling
> the truth or whether it will find problems where none
> actually exist?

I would say I do, to a point, but there are some things I just
don't understand, or have little experience with - like XP ;-)

One of the main reasons I still use 98seLite is that I can do
/anything/ I want, and I understand what is going on with the
machine. I can edit the registry manually, when necessary, I
have done it dozens if not hundreds of times, and I understand
the Windows OS. The XP system was designed, among other things,
to be completely incomprehensible, at least to me.

Also, I am not aware of any way you can buy me the 7 day license
to try it. It only runs on XP and up and I use XP SO little, and
never on the internet, that it would be VERY difficult to find
anything. Still, who knows. Someone else probably would do a
much better job than I, and a system with a LOT of programs
installed and deleted, and used on the net a /lot/ should be the
kind of machine examined. You must have a local friend who could
help you?

>> But for $30 /forever/ instead of $120 every year, the
>> Regclean Pro from:
>>
>> http://www.systweak.com/
>>
>> is a MUCH better deal. I have used an old version of this
>> one for /years/, and it is excellent.
>
> Thank you for the tip!

YW. It has a restore function, like all such programs should. I
have NEVER needed to use it - the program has never messed
anything up.

>> I /will/ add that about half of the "problems" these
>> programs fix are not really /problems/. OTOH, the other
>> half CAN be, sometimes very serious.
>
> I'm no guru, that's for sure, but my conception is that if
> malware becomes resident on a Windows machine it will
> *always* add and/or change Registry entries. If they are
> not 'put right' surely such malware could remain active?

It depends on the malware. There are many kinds, starting with
something that will disable your mouse for 3 seconds every once
in a while or so just to drive you crazy, to something that will
take over your system without your knowledge and use it to seed
torrents of the latest not yet released Hollywood productions,
which could be VERY unhealthy for the machine's innocent owner.

You try not to allow anything like that to "move in"
permanently. A good AV scanner examines EVERY file on your
system whenever it is downloaded, opened, closed, copied,
written, etc.

Many registry entries are completely useless and exist only
because of MS's dementia and desire to totally take over ALL
desktop/laptop computing. If you install 3 different image
editing programs, each one will do a number on the registry. One
will write 10 lines (all having to do ONLY with uninstalling it)
while another one will write 600 lines and change ALL file
associations and make your system behave so that you might
actually think something is wrong or you have a virus. And those
are the programs that usually do NOT remove those registry
entries, let alone restore them to the original state!

Speaking of "uninstalling" programs, IME, of the (maybe) 500
times I have done it, about half the time stuff is left
cluttering up the registry. Sometimes it causes minor problems,
sometimes it causes annoyances, but no real harm, but it
certainly does not NEED to be there. One could argue "it doesn't
matter", but WHY do people's Windows directories - AND the
registry - bloat continuously, and end up twice the original
size in a year? Mine doesn't.

I don't have enough experience with malware to talk about this
further, since in about 20 years I have seen 3 viruses. It's
very easy to get paranoid. AV has become a very big "scare and
get rich" branch of the computing world.

> That's why I'm a little sceptical of the advice recommended
> by folk in the Aumha thread!
> http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099

Sorry, I don't have to patience to read it. I have read - and
been involved in - WAY too many discussions on registry
cleaners. When people have their mind made up without even
having tried a product, arguing with them can get very
frustrating.

t.

[~BD~]

On 21/03/2011 05:45, thanatoid wrote:
> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
> news:T8Cdnds2Ip5B0BvQnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com:
>
>> Do you have the expertise to run the facility on a known
>> 'good' machine to test if PCMightyMax is actually telling
>> the truth or whether it will find problems where none
>> actually exist?
>
> I would say I do, to a point, but there are some things I just
> don't understand, or have little experience with - like XP ;-)

That surprises me! I went straight from Windows 98 to XP in 2002!

> One of the main reasons I still use 98seLite is that I can do
> /anything/ I want, and I understand what is going on with the
> machine. I can edit the registry manually, when necessary, I
> have done it dozens if not hundreds of times, and I understand
> the Windows OS. The XP system was designed, among other things,
> to be completely incomprehensible, at least to me.

Thanks for explaining. I knew no better! ;-)

> Also, I am not aware of any way you can buy me the 7 day license
> to try it. It only runs on XP and up and I use XP SO little, and
> never on the internet, that it would be VERY difficult to find
> anything. Still, who knows. Someone else probably would do a
> much better job than I, and a system with a LOT of programs
> installed and deleted, and used on the net a /lot/ should be the
> kind of machine examined. You must have a local friend who could
> help you?

According to the FAQ http://www.pcmightymax.net/faq

"What can I do with the free version?
The free version of PC MightyMax can scan your computer for errors, and
allows unrestricted use of all built-in tools."

I'm unsure how you came to the conclusion one had to pay - just to
determine if the programme *thinks* you have errors!

Btw, *I* was that friend - a pal of mine used MightyMax back in 2005!
We ended up wiping his drive and reinstalling XP from scratch.

>>> But for $30 /forever/ instead of $120 every year, the
>>> Regclean Pro from:
>>>
>>> http://www.systweak.com/
>>>
>>> is a MUCH better deal. I have used an old version of this
>>> one for /years/, and it is excellent.
>>
>> Thank you for the tip!
>
> YW. It has a restore function, like all such programs should. I
> have NEVER needed to use it - the program has never messed
> anything up.

That's really good to know. Thanks again.

>>> I /will/ add that about half of the "problems" these
>>> programs fix are not really /problems/. OTOH, the other
>>> half CAN be, sometimes very serious.
>>
>> I'm no guru, that's for sure, but my conception is that if
>> malware becomes resident on a Windows machine it will
>> *always* add and/or change Registry entries. If they are
>> not 'put right' surely such malware could remain active?
>
> It depends on the malware.

[....] All read

> I don't have enough experience with malware to talk about this
> further, since in about 20 years I have seen 3 viruses. It's
> very easy to get paranoid. AV has become a very big "scare and
> get rich" branch of the computing world.

You seem to know what you're doing .... and you are right!

>> That's why I'm a little sceptical of the advice recommended
>> by folk in the Aumha thread!
>> http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099
>
> Sorry, I don't have to patience to read it. I have read - and
> been involved in - WAY too many discussions on registry
> cleaners. When people have their mind made up without even
> having tried a product, arguing with them can get very
> frustrating.

I understand. Thanks for your comprehensive reply!

D.

[thanatoid]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
news:EoqdnSN1I7hrlxrQnZ2dnUVZ7qednZ2d@bt.com:

> On 21/03/2011 05:45, thanatoid wrote:
>> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
>> (...) there are some things I
>> just don't understand, or have little experience with -
>> like XP ;-)
>
> That surprises me! I went straight from Windows 98 to XP in
> 2002!

There was no reason for me to do so. In fact, until about 3
years ago, I was still using a Win95B 166MHz PI with 96MB of RAM
and a 33.6 modem for the internet. I had bought a 2GHz machine
to use for music and graphics, but it didn't get connected to
the net until ADSL got cheaper than 2 phone lines.

>> The XP system was
>> designed, among other things, to be completely
>> incomprehensible, at least to me.
>
> Thanks for explaining. I knew no better! ;-)

I am sure many would argue with BOTH our statements!

<snip>

> According to the FAQ http://www.pcmightymax.net/faq
>
> "What can I do with the free version?
> The free version of PC MightyMax can scan your computer for
> errors, and allows unrestricted use of all built-in tools."

You may have read it more carefully than I, but as I understood
it, you do a scan, if it find nothing, they refund your 7 day
license. If it finds stuff, you become brainwashed into buying
the product. The site is a little hard to navigate (hmmm...)

> I'm unsure how you came to the conclusion one had to pay -
> just to determine if the programme *thinks* you have
> errors!
>
> Btw, *I* was that friend - a pal of mine used MightyMax
> back in 2005! We ended up wiping his drive and reinstalling
> XP from scratch.

That is NOT a good endorsement of the product, which APPEARS
simple enough to use.

<snip>

>> It has a restore function, like all such programs
>> should. I have NEVER needed to use it - the program has
>> never messed anything up.
>
> That's really good to know. Thanks again.

My pleasure.

<snip>

Have fun ;-)

[thanatoid]

~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
news:T8Cdnds2Ip5B0BvQnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com:

> On 20/03/2011 17:43, thanatoid wrote:

<snip>

I should probably add that most malware, if it is the kind that
invades the registry, is usually very resistant to registry
cleaners and even manual attempts at eradication by experts.
Those things are written to take over your machine, sometimes to
the point of having to totally wipe the drive.

IOW, you sometimes have to restore a complete C image, or at the
very least restore the registry using DOS (if you can) - and
some malware will not even let you do that.

So if malware invasion is your main concern, I would recommend
the Agnitum Outpost firewall for XP and up, free. I still use
the 2002 version with my 98SElite system, this one came out
quite recently and has had a very positive response.

For AV I strongly recommend ESET NOD32 - just the virus scanner.
No need for the full suite. Their AV is the best, but I don't
know if their /firewall/ is - I /do/ know it is NOT free ;-)

t.

[~BD~]

On 21/03/2011 06:21, thanatoid wrote:
> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
> news:T8Cdnds2Ip5B0BvQnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com:
>
>> On 20/03/2011 17:43, thanatoid wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I should probably add that most malware, if it is the kind that
> invades the registry, is usually very resistant to registry
> cleaners and even manual attempts at eradication by experts.
> Those things are written to take over your machine, sometimes to
> the point of having to totally wipe the drive.

Just for peace of mind I wipe my XP drive from time to time!

> IOW, you sometimes have to restore a complete C image, or at the
> very least restore the registry using DOS (if you can) - and
> some malware will not even let you do that.

I've sometimes used Darik's Boot and Nuke too, just in case it's become
possible for malware to resurrect deleted items from a disc to continue
it's dirty deeds! http://www.dban.org/

> So if malware invasion is your main concern, I would recommend
> the Agnitum Outpost firewall for XP and up, free. I still use
> the 2002 version with my 98SElite system, this one came out
> quite recently and has had a very positive response.

I learn something new every day! I'd not heard of Agnitum before. I've
had a quick look at the web site, but do not see a free version.
Thanks for mentioning it though.

> For AV I strongly recommend ESET NOD32 - just the virus scanner.
> No need for the full suite. Their AV is the best, but I don't
> know if their /firewall/ is - I /do/ know it is NOT free ;-)

I'm aware of NOD32 and it's reputation At present my XP machines are
using MSE and the Windows firewall (connecting wirelessly through a BT
home hub) - all *seems* to be working as it should!

Many thanks for you helpful advice.

D.

[Trifle Menot]

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 08:50:52 +0000, ~BD~ <~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote:

>On 21/03/2011 06:21, thanatoid wrote:
>> ~BD~<~BD~@nomail.afraid.com> wrote in
>> news:T8Cdnds2Ip5B0BvQnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@bt.com:
>>
>>> On 20/03/2011 17:43, thanatoid wrote:
>>
>> I should probably add that most malware, if it is the kind that
>> invades the registry, is usually very resistant to registry
>> cleaners and even manual attempts at eradication by experts.
>> Those things are written to take over your machine, sometimes to
>> the point of having to totally wipe the drive.

I've had to wipe a drive and set the hardware jumper to clear CMOS too.
Now that's a nasty virus. But others were killable without killing the
patient in the process.


>Just for peace of mind I wipe my XP drive from time to time!
>
>> IOW, you sometimes have to restore a complete C image, or at the
>> very least restore the registry using DOS (if you can) - and
>> some malware will not even let you do that.
>
>I've sometimes used Darik's Boot and Nuke too, just in case it's become
>possible for malware to resurrect deleted items from a disc to continue
>it's dirty deeds! http://www.dban.org/
>
>> So if malware invasion is your main concern, I would recommend
>> the Agnitum Outpost firewall for XP and up, free. I still use
>> the 2002 version with my 98SElite system, this one came out
>> quite recently and has had a very positive response.
>
>I learn something new every day! I'd not heard of Agnitum before. I've
>had a quick look at the web site, but do not see a free version.
>Thanks for mentioning it though.
>
>> For AV I strongly recommend ESET NOD32 - just the virus scanner.
>> No need for the full suite. Their AV is the best, but I don't
>> know if their /firewall/ is - I /do/ know it is NOT free ;-)
>
>I'm aware of NOD32 and it's reputation At present my XP machines are
>using MSE and the Windows firewall (connecting wirelessly through a BT
>home hub) - all *seems* to be working as it should!

I don't use AV software, I like to surf naked. If I plan to visit sites
of dubious reputation, I may use VMware or Virtualbox and run Windows in
their sandbox. If it gets trashed by a virus, it's contained within the
sandbox and the host OS remains uninfected.


--
Web mail, POP3, and SMTP
http://www.beewyz.com/freeaccounts.php

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A7=F1=FChw=F6=A3f?=]

Trifle Menot wrote:
>
> I don't use AV software, I like to surf naked. If I plan to visit sites
> of dubious reputation, I may use VMware or Virtualbox and run Windows in
> their sandbox. If it gets trashed by a virus, it's contained within the
> sandbox and the host OS remains uninfected.
>
You can use Sandboxie to run just the web browser and keep things away from
the OS. It will run any program sandboxed. Velly niiiice.



--
http://www.skepticalscience.com/
http://stopbeck.com|www.snuhwolf.9f....eyeonpalin.org
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