In article <hpb2js$ppc$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
nope@noway.atnohow.anyday says...
>
> "Leythos" <spam999free@rrohio.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.2622d2ac3c6c7f7798a26a@us.news.astraweb.c om...
> > In article <hparni$c3n$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > nope@noway.atnohow.anyday says...
> >> Again ... calling someone a troll is the lazy way of interacting with
> >> anyone. If you or I can understand why people do what they do and say
> >> what
> >> they say and gain understanding of those things, (which takes an effort
> >> and
> >> some time,) there would be no need to label anyone as a troll.
> >>
> >
> > Jenn,
> >
> > I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You seem to think that trolls are just
> > labeled that because people, even everyone, disagrees with them, but
> > that's not the case.
>
> I don't believe 99.9% of the people labeled as trolls deserve the label.

Yes, In most groups I believe 90% of people labeled trolls are not
actually trolls by definition, they just piss everyone off and get
called that.

>
> > A troll disrupts by many means, sometimes subtle and not always
> > argumentative....
>
> Answer these questions if you would ... How does one disrupt a newsgroup if
> people aren't easily offended? Why is there no accountability for how people
> react when they respond in anger or out of frustration? Why is it ok to
> respond in anger or frustration to someone and then label them as the troll?

There are many ways to disrupt a group without offending people,
although "offended" is a unclear thing as many people are at least
bothered if not offended by some things.

One easy way is to divert threads into off-topic areas, much like this
one has gone. Another is to refuse to agree on anything and to change
directions when their position is factually, beyond reproach, shown to
be invalid. Another is to never accept anything, regardless of any
direction or even staying on the same direction.

As for "responding in anger" - that's hard to tell, I've not been angry
with anyone in Usenet for ages, it's really hard to get angry at someone
you don't know, someone that could be completely different than they
appear, could be trolling, etc.... As for calling people "Troll" out of
anger, well, people call others a lot more than just "Troll" when they
are angry with them. Some people don't know how to fight trolls, some
people get sucked in by trolls, some people just don't have the maturity
to deal with trolls.

As an example, I have no ill feelings towards BD, but I'm 110% sure that
he's a troll based on his actions and methods. While he could be a
priest in real life, that doesn't change who he is on Usenet.

You need to learn to look beyond the petty name calling and see why
someone is labeled something - since you don't believe there are Usenet
trolls, while the those of us that were on Usenet before the first troll
do, you might want to reconsider your position.

> > I have many people that I/we disagree with on many subjects and
don't
> > consider them trolls - just look at politics. The difference between
> > someone you disagree with and a troll is that the troll doesn't care
> > about the conversation or validity, they keep twisting, like BD does.
>
> What makes you think people discussing politics care about the validity of
> any disagreements? Most political discussions I've seen are 99% twisting
> what other people say in order to get a reaction? By what you are saying
> here, you have some sort of dividing line that doesn't differentiate between
> political discussions and discussions that you consider to be caused by a
> troll. BTW .. I LOVE debate type of discussions, and have been a part of
> such debate groups for many years.... Just thought I'd mention it.

No, I don't see disagreements as trolling, but, to be honest, making
statements just to get a reaction, when that reaction is not valid in
the group, that is trolling by definition. political discussions, like
any form of discussion, can be trolled, but people can have opposing
views and discuss them in a heated manner without trolling - it happens
all the time. Most trolls are found in Religion, Politics and
Linux/Windows groups on Usenet, they thrive in those areas. A good troll
can actually have people going to hundreds of threads in a technical
group before being exposed.

In the old days we would just issue a cancel bot to wipe their messages
from most Usenet servers, but that power is very frowned on today as
well as most Usenet servers don't accept external cancel messages any
more.


--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)